Gransnet forums

Pedants' corner

What happened to “the” ?

(34 Posts)
MawB Mon 07-Oct-19 08:39:39

My memory may be playing tricks, but didn’t we used to refer to the Queen Mary, the Titanic, the QE2 and the Royal Yacht Britannia?
Didn’t Nelson fight the battle of Trafalgar on the Victory and didn’t I take visiting friends to see the Curry Sark at Greenwich or the Mary Rose?
I am increasingly aware of this definite article’s disappearance and wonder when it happened.
This morningI have just read the following
Boris Johnson is considering plans to replace Royal Yacht Britannia with two £150 million ships paid for by the foreign aid budget
The new ships, one called “Britannia” and the other named the “Florence Nightingale” or “Mary Seacole”, would be used by members of the Royal family for overseas tours to the Commonwealth and other countries
Without getting into the political argument, does anybody perhaps with Naval connections, know when or why this change occurred? .

TwinLolly Wed 09-Oct-19 10:46:47

I'm going to drop a similar spanner in the works. In some newspaper articles and magazines I've noticed that the words Mr/Mrs/Ms/Miss have been dropped and only surnames are used. hmm

I get terribly confused as to who is who and often have to revert back to the beginning of the story to see who they are talking about. confused

Callistemon Wed 09-Oct-19 01:02:54

I understand that Wirral is just that - Wirral.

Not The Wirral as everyone seems to call it.

MawB Tue 08-Oct-19 22:22:25

“The morn’s morn” was one I remember!
And the eve of Selkirk Common Riding is universally known as “The Nicht Afore the Morn “ smile

grapefruitpip Tue 08-Oct-19 20:13:55

Maw, I think I know what happened to your " the".....it was overused in Scotland!

the morn, the forenoon and so on. It came back to me, my granny saying it.

Madmaggie Tue 08-Oct-19 18:46:42

I am irked by TV presenters saying "vee" instead of versus - it really hits a nerve and I'm normally pretty laid back. Until they say it that is ?

grandtanteJE65 Tue 08-Oct-19 17:04:02

At my school we sang, "God save the Queen " in both the first and the last line.

I agree MawB, ships were referred to as the plus their name.

Newspapers, however, seem to drop the article probably because they feel it gives more impact to the sentence.

What annoys me even more is hearing newscasters talking of the Education Ministry instead of the Ministry of Education.

Rufus2 Tue 08-Oct-19 13:40:02

we used to sing God save our Queen

And we used to sing "God save our Gracious Queen! as well as paying homage to our "Noble Queen"!
Eliminates complaints from the "the" pedants! grin

sarahellenwhitney Tue 08-Oct-19 11:47:44

Don't know about the other royals

sarahellenwhitney Tue 08-Oct-19 11:46:04

The QE11 was used in the Falklands and fail to see why. and am sure her majesty would approve.don't know about the other royals but tough, royalty should have a ship exclusively for them selves. From what I have seen , Tv only grinwhat an experience to sail on the battle ship QE11.?. Prince George would love it.

CaroleAnne Tue 08-Oct-19 11:40:54

Diverting from Maws topic re the word The petaining to ships does anyone remember the last line of the first verse of our national anthem.
I am sure that we used to sing God save our Queen not God save The Queen. Best wishes Carole.

Paperbackwriter Tue 08-Oct-19 11:33:28

Oh annodomini how VERY much I agree with you about the overuse of 'the' in M&S and also in other clothing stores. The Pure Collection cashmere catalogue has it on almost every page, worst example (to me) being 'the midi pencil'. As for M&S, 'the skinny Ivy'. Ivy WHAT, ffs? (Sorry, bit off-topic but once I'm started...)

ReadyMeals Tue 08-Oct-19 11:17:54

Tell you what I have noticed about "the". When I was young we used to say "thuh" and "uh" for the and a. Nowadays it seems to be "thee" and "ayee" (to rhyme with "day") and "ayee nuther" instead of "an other" Also LBC radio presenters started this but they all say "do you not think?" rather than "don't you think?" etc

Callistemon Tue 08-Oct-19 07:54:55

Presumably HMY Britannia and t'other one will be used to drum up overseas business after Brexit, one to go east and one west!

That was its main function before the short-sighted TB got rid of it.

BradfordLass72 Tue 08-Oct-19 07:12:27

Speaking of text:

Mags Harnett, an Irish artist, has turned some of the Book of Kells illustrations into text-speak.

grapefruitpip Mon 07-Oct-19 13:46:16

the Winter edit......what is that? I have no idea.

merlotgran Mon 07-Oct-19 13:45:11

Or maybe a return of the Onedin Line

merlotgran Mon 07-Oct-19 13:44:00

The Queen no longer does overseas tours so would this mean a luxury yacht each for William and Harry? ?

Bathsheba Mon 07-Oct-19 13:36:42

Perhaps BJ wants to be seen to be addressing the RF's carbon footprint issue - maybe next we'll hear they're no longer allowed to use private jets wink

merlotgran Mon 07-Oct-19 13:21:41

Two royal yachts???? ??

Riverwalk Mon 07-Oct-19 12:27:33

Never mind the missing definite article, I'm more concerned about millions being diverted from the foreign aid budget to The Royal Yacht!

Eloethan Mon 07-Oct-19 12:17:19

Eglantine Or, as many newsreaders/commentators say, "the Pry Minister".

Maggiemaybe Mon 07-Oct-19 11:53:49

Thanks for the information, Eglantine. You learn something new every day.

The UK seems to be in danger of losing its definite article too. I’ve read several times recently about what’s happening in or to UK.

quizqueen Mon 07-Oct-19 11:46:49

I doubt if anyone working in the media today was asked at their interview if they were competent with writing and understanding English grammar!

Jane10 Mon 07-Oct-19 11:40:46

Where does 'The Donald' fit in with all this?!
Seriously I suspect that text speak has impinged in ordinary writing ie the quickest way to get a message over.

Eglantine21 Mon 07-Oct-19 11:08:29

That’s OK.

Id rather be Elegran anyway?