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A grammar/parts of speech question

(58 Posts)
Doodledog Sat 10-Jul-21 17:53:16

Are words still called 'parts of speech'? It seems rather old-fashioned, but I'm sure you know what I mean.

Can anyone help me to differentiate between the uses of the word 'difficult', please?

What I mean is, how to define the terms as used in the following ways:

'It was difficult to decide . . .'

'You are being difficult.'

I am going round in circles, as they seem to me both to be adjectives, but they are clearly being used in different ways - or am I overthinking that bit? I used to be good at this sort of thing, but it's so long since I needed to do get it right that I'm doubting myself.

It's for something I am writing, and I am procrastinating by trying to work it out, so if anyone knows the answer it will help me to get on with what I'm doing ?.

annodomini Sun 11-Jul-21 11:57:13

It's an adjective in both phrases. Instead of saying 'you are being difficult', substitute 'awkward' for 'difficult'. 'Awkward' in the context is, indisputably an adjective, qualifying 'you' and the same applies to 'difficult'. I know I am using an 'old fashioned' grammatical term in'qualifying', but don't think the grammar they teach for SATS has anything better!

growstuff Sun 11-Jul-21 11:17:50

PS. "deciding" is a gerund, therefore is treated as a noun.

growstuff Sun 11-Jul-21 11:17:11

grandtant It's not being used as an adverb because "to decide* is a noun phrase, therefore a noun is still being described and it's still an adjective.

grandtanteJE65 Sun 11-Jul-21 11:15:34

Sorry, forgot the second query, but see it has been answered by others.

grandtanteJE65 Sun 11-Jul-21 11:12:58

It was difficult to describe.

Here difficult is an adjective describing it!

It being what is known as a false subject and difficult a predicate, due to the verb being the present tense of to be.

To be does not take an object like most verbs, but a predicate, as whatever follows to be is usually identical with the subject.

Bear with me: I realise this is as clear as mud. Here is an example to explain things better.

"My father was a doctor." Here "my father" and "a doctor" mentioned in the sentence are clearly one and the same person. This is how "to be" and a few other verbs, notably "to become" work in a sentence.

If you swing your sentence around and write what in my opinion would be a poorer sentence, grammatically, and put "to decide was difficult" some people might argue that "difficult" here is an adverb. Others would argue that it is still an adjective here and being used in exactly the same way as in your sentence.

Difficult is one of the many adjectives that are used as adverbs without adding -ly.

Would you feel happier with your prose if you wrote "deciding was difficult" instead of "it was difficult to decide".

To me both are grammatically correct. It is a matter of style or personal preference which is better.

growstuff Sun 11-Jul-21 11:01:28

Elegran

growstuff So you can "attempt the difficult", where the adjective is used as a noun to generalise something for its difficulty.

The OP's example, 'You are being difficult.' is still a description (adjective) of the state of the person addressed, however, not of them being a general personification of difficulty.

Yes, it is still an adjective in that example.

An example of nominalized adjectives is "the good, the bad and the ugly".

Witzend Sun 11-Jul-21 10:55:30

I used to teach EFL and have studied several foreign languages, but the odd thing still makes me exercise ze little grey cells.

One I remember was when I was doing an OU course on the 19thC novel, and someone on our student email group asked why ‘nineteenth century’ was sometimes hyphenated and sometimes not, since she was anxious not to make a mistake in her essay.

I hadn’t actually thought about it before, but when I did, it dawned that it was because in e.g. ‘the nineteenth-century novel’ the two combined words are an adjective describing ‘novel’, whereas in e.g. ‘During the nineteenth century…’ they are an adjective and a noun.

I will admit to being something of a nerd when it comes to words and language generally. I have a dd much the same, so we can enjoy being thoroughly nerdy together.

Elegran Sun 11-Jul-21 10:42:21

I shall read that, but I need a cup of of coffee first.

Elegran Sun 11-Jul-21 10:40:36

growstuff So you can "attempt the difficult", where the adjective is used as a noun to generalise something for its difficulty.

The OP's example, 'You are being difficult.' is still a description (adjective) of the state of the person addressed, however, not of them being a general personification of difficulty.

Lucca Sun 11-Jul-21 10:38:54

I enjoyed reading that! It was difficult to resolve but I’m glad any difficulty has been smoothed out. Grammar can be difficult to understand.
Damn now I need to look up the etymology of difficult/difficile etc

growstuff Sun 11-Jul-21 10:37:23

Elegran

GagaJo

Isn't 'difficult' in 'You are being difficult' being used as an adverb? The behaviour described in the verb 'being' is what is described. Whether that behaviour is physical or mental, it is action and therefore a verb.

I think if it is being used as an adverb it would be something like You are being difficultly" ie, with difficulty, that is, "Your being is difficult for you"

I think the OP wants is that "You are acting as though you are difficult".

owl.purdue.edu/owl/general_writing/grammar/how_to_use_adjectives_and_adverbs/adjective_or_adverb.html

#2 covers the use of adjectives with the verb "to be".

growstuff Sun 11-Jul-21 10:33:50

geekesse

One issue seems to be that the OP has forgotten that ‘to be’, although a verb, doesn’t operate grammatically the same as other verbs. Instead of ‘subject, verb, object’ (nominative, verb, accusative) anything that comes after any form of the verb ‘to be’ is a complement, takes the same case as the subject, and in terms of meaning, could be joined to the subject without a verb at all. ‘The woman is (being) difficult’ means the same as ‘the difficult woman’.

Quite! It's the same with the verb "to become".

growstuff Sun 11-Jul-21 10:32:31

Elegran

There is a lot of toddler-speak around at the moment.

That's a very generous description of some of it. wink

growstuff Sun 11-Jul-21 10:31:57

FarNorth

^‘The woman is (being) difficult’ means the same as ‘the difficult woman’.^
confused
It really doesn't.

I agree. The use of the present continuous form of the verb "to be" shows that the woman is being difficult at this time.

"The difficult woman" would imply that the woman is always difficult.

Elegran Sun 11-Jul-21 10:30:48

There is a lot of toddler-speak around at the moment.

growstuff Sun 11-Jul-21 10:30:25

"The difficult" is a nominalized adjective, so yes it is a noun. Verbs can also be used as nouns and are known as gerunds.

www.myenglishpages.com/english/grammar-lesson-adjectival-nouns.php

In German, adjectives used in this way start with a capital letter, which shows they are nouns.

FarNorth Sun 11-Jul-21 10:26:29

grin I've always thought 'my bad' was basically toddler-speak, rather than having any real context.

Elegran Sun 11-Jul-21 10:24:14

Taps have the words "cold" or "hot" on them. That is because the water that comes out of them is likely to be cold (adjective) or hot (adjective). It isn't because "cold" or "hot" are here being used as nouns - in that case "hot" would be "heat". The same with climbs being labelled as "difficult" etc - they are difficult (adjective) climbs, Leaving out the noun "climb" doesn't turn "difficult" into a noun in its place, you are supposed to mentally insert it yourself.

That current mostrosity "My bad!" is similar. You mentally register it as "My bad action!" A bad is NOT a noun, unless you are a toddler just starting to learn language and not yet fluent.

FarNorth Sun 11-Jul-21 10:23:46

‘The woman is (being) difficult’ means the same as ‘the difficult woman’.
confused
It really doesn't.

foxie48 Sun 11-Jul-21 09:41:44

Doodledog

Oh yes, of course you are right.

I know it's far from obvious from this thread, but I used to be rather good at grammar ?. I think I need a refresher, don't I?

I think the penny is dropping, though. Although I thought that in both of my examples the word was being used as an adjective, the 'you are difficult' one sounded to me more like 'a class of person', which is why I thought it was different. But unless it takes an article in the example, it is still an adjective.

Phew!

Thanks for your patience, everyone. It's much appreciated.

No expert but I think "difficult" is always an adjective even when it's being used as a noun, my reasoning is that the noun it is describing has been omitted but is still implied. eg when it's being used to describe a group of people , the noun "people" is left out, in the example given earlier from the OED used in climbing, the difficult describes climbs, which has been left out but is implied. So being pedantic, which is what this post is about, in certain cases I would describe "difficult" as an adjective being used as a noun but in the cases given by the OP "difficult" is an adjective.

geekesse Sun 11-Jul-21 09:40:44

One issue seems to be that the OP has forgotten that ‘to be’, although a verb, doesn’t operate grammatically the same as other verbs. Instead of ‘subject, verb, object’ (nominative, verb, accusative) anything that comes after any form of the verb ‘to be’ is a complement, takes the same case as the subject, and in terms of meaning, could be joined to the subject without a verb at all. ‘The woman is (being) difficult’ means the same as ‘the difficult woman’.

Elegran Sun 11-Jul-21 09:09:05

GagaJo

Isn't 'difficult' in 'You are being difficult' being used as an adverb? The behaviour described in the verb 'being' is what is described. Whether that behaviour is physical or mental, it is action and therefore a verb.

I think if it is being used as an adverb it would be something like You are being difficultly" ie, with difficulty, that is, "Your being is difficult for you"

I think the OP wants is that "You are acting as though you are difficult".

Flexagon Sun 11-Jul-21 00:03:33

GagaJo

I love thrashing out word classes. Nothing like a good sentence parse! So nerdy.

My favourite doorstop is my copy of A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language by Randolph Quirk et al - all 1779 pages of it. Definitely nerdy!

GagaJo Sat 10-Jul-21 23:55:41

I love thrashing out word classes. Nothing like a good sentence parse! So nerdy.

Doodledog Sat 10-Jul-21 23:32:28

Oh yes, of course you are right.

I know it's far from obvious from this thread, but I used to be rather good at grammar ?. I think I need a refresher, don't I?

I think the penny is dropping, though. Although I thought that in both of my examples the word was being used as an adjective, the 'you are difficult' one sounded to me more like 'a class of person', which is why I thought it was different. But unless it takes an article in the example, it is still an adjective.

Phew!

Thanks for your patience, everyone. It's much appreciated.