BBC Howler!

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That?

Don’t understand what you re showing us

I think it should be ‘who’.

I KNOW it should be who!

Yes, I thought it should be who rather than that.

I think the term leatherhead can mean a sort of idiot, can't it? I assume she came from that town in Surrey.

Yes, Leatherhead is a Surrey town.

So, it should read, "the woman from Leatherhead who ...."

I also would have used 'who' rather than 'that' but I'm not sure that is grammatically incorrect. Happy to be convinced should anyone wish to be bothered 🙂.

Not a howler, just a bit of stone in one's shoe, so to speak.

I wouldn’t call it a howler.

It's a good job she didn't come from Dummer then!

I always thought Fergie's town had a funny name.

Or the villages of Ugley or Piddley.

I knew I'd seen this use of 'that' instead of 'who' in "proper literature". It's in Coleridge's ^Rime of the Ancient Mariner^:

"Under the keel, nine fathom deep,
From the land of mist and snow
The spirit slid, and it was he
That made the ship to go."

Perhaps the actual grammatical instances where this occurs are quite subtle but clearly it has been, and still is if that Beeb quote is true, actual "usage". Or, as one language teacher of mine said: "If it's what people say, then it's correct." Idiomatic.

Is she ok?

The woman was injured and shocked but said the theatre staff took no notice of her. Another audience member, a doctor, came to her aid and she was taken to hospital and found to have soft tissue injuries.

Why is it a howler?

And is Sir Ian OK? If any of us posters fell off a stage we'd be in A&E with broken bones.

I think there have been press reports on his condition.
He vowed to be back on stage the next night (the show must go on) but I think that was overly-optimistic.

It was a nasty fall especially in someone older.

Sir Ian McKellen has said he is having “physiotherapy, light exercise and a lot of essential rest at home” after three nights in hospital following the fall from the stage.
That was a week ago.

Callistemon213

The woman was injured and shocked but said the theatre staff took no notice of her. Another audience member, a doctor, came to her aid and she was taken to hospital and found to have soft tissue injuries.

Yes indeed Casllistemon. The poor woman was left in tears, shock and agony and completely ignored by theatre staff. It was only thanks to a doctor who happened to be in the audience that she received any attention.

She had to make her own way to hospital I believe. I would have thought Sir Ian might have enquired after her health once he felt better or even sent her a card.

I don't think it's the grammar. It's like the old news headline 'Aberdeen man lost when Titanic sinks'

Oh dear, flappergirl, that will be a “night to remember” but for all the wrong reasons.

Baggs

I knew I'd seen this use of 'that' instead of 'who' in "proper literature". It's in Coleridge's ^Rime of the Ancient Mariner^:

"Under the keel, nine fathom deep,
From the land of mist and snow
The spirit slid, and it was he
That made the ship to go."

Perhaps the actual grammatical instances where this occurs are quite subtle but clearly it has been, and still is if that Beeb quote is true, actual "usage". Or, as one language teacher of mine said: "If it's what people say, then it's correct." Idiomatic.

I cannot come up with a rule, but would any of you say "It was he who made the ship to move" rather than "he that"?

To me there is nothing wrong here, as "he" "it" and "the spirit" are the same entity.