Lose or loose, confusion over spelling

RosieandherMaw

suelld

I think one of the reasons you might be seeing more incorrect spellings/attributions to the words lose/ loose is simple … * interactive text!
I often fire off a text without checking the find that interactive text has ‘ corrected’ my spelling incorrectly ( tho occasionally usefully!)

I think you mean predictive text where the mobile/computer or whatever thinks it knows what word you mean or plan to use. Yes sometimes it will just “offer” suggested spelling but in my experience seems to be on another planet with the wildest ideas of its own.

Sorry yes …PREDICTIVE text …! Shame my computer didn’t correct me! 😁

No, you’re correct, Nanny27.

The problem with spelling is that once phonics was abandoned in about the 1960s, 1970s the connection between the sounds which words contain and the letter or letters that represent those sounds was lost. Teaching each spelling as a random string of letters does nothing to ‘fix’ it. I’m sure that people who spell ‘definitely’ as ‘defiantly’ can say the word perfectly well. They just don’t understand that they’ve got the wrong letters in the spelling because the letters have no meaning for them.

Spelling depends on kinaesthetic memory, too, so if children don’t do much handwriting spellings don’t become automatic.

I think it is to do with the fact that young people don't write any more. They type, or even just talk into their phones to send a text to someone. Spellcheck will not correct usage.

If it were not for spellcheck I'm sure I would make spelling errors. My nemesis have always been words with double letters; occasion, necessary, etc. In fact I was corrected for both of these just now. One has two c's and one s, the other has one c and 2 s's.

If I had to to pen and paper, the teachers and pedants here would find plenty to correct.

"presant"

There is no such word.

Seen in a local market 'Sprouts on the stork'.

kjmpde

I get confused with spelling so I try to find a different word to suit the phrase

on the same thread - look at people who get confused over hanging. I was always told that a person is hung and a picture is hanged

This is interesting because I have always used those words the other way round. A person is hanged whereas a picture is hung.
Am I wrong?

Kicubbin. William Boyd books are just the job for keeping my dictionary on my phone handy, and more so with Paul Theroux. My adult education

There's a village on the outskirts of Maidstone, Kent called Loose.

They have a branch of the Women's Institute which meets regularly.

Think about it.

Celeste22

Mollygo

Our generation certainly was taught good grammar. Each morning we had to "parse the sentences" so we all knew nouns adjectives verbs etc etc. Obviously accents have something to account for the way words are spoken.
In Scotland we definitely pronounce the 'er' at the end of drawers, for instance.

That was still going on when I was at school, but even the First Aid in English beloved of primary schools didn’t introduce terms like determiners fronted adverbials and aptronyms.

Mollygo

Our generation certainly was taught good grammar. Each morning we had to "parse the sentences" so we all knew nouns adjectives verbs etc etc. Obviously accents have something to account for the way words are spoken.
In Scotland we definitely pronounce the 'er' at the end of drawers, for instance.

My DD once corrected a friend's post on FB then apologised saying she had been brought up by the grammar police - ie me!
The one that irritates me most is could of / should of. Even some journalists make mistakes of that nature.

There was a period of time in the 70s where spelling and grammar were not taught as it was thought to dampen creativity. It was quickly realised that this wasn't working, and since the introduction of the national literacy and numeracy strategies in the 1990s children are taught to spell and used grammar and punctuation correctly. The SATs papers for 11 year olds are challenging and there are high expectations. I taught for 40 years and was a primary headteacher for 30, only recently retired. It is really important that schools teach these things well for their Ofsted ratings.

The misspelling that I find confusing is defiantly for definitely. I see it all the time on Facebook comments - just why?
And pacifically for specifically - but that's how it's pronounced where I live!

DrWatson

For toetoe, it never WAS "presAnt", and I first went to skool in the 50s. It's "presEnt" for both meanings. It's also "presEntable" if you look passably tidy.

In general, the standard of education has fallen off a cliff in the last 30 or 40 years, with some lousy English (see just about any F'book debate?!), and the History & Geography levels have also gone down the drane.

There** seems to be a widespread surge to blame 'dyslexia' (funny how they seem able to spell the word quite well?!) though the occurrence of that affliction seems vastly higher than when I was little? People also widely blame the predictive text on their** phones (**sorry, that's possibly they're or there, all kwite opshonal these days), though I'm unclear why that issue stops folk checking the message before sending it?

Just out of interest, what genre of writing from thirty or forty years ago are you comparing with Facebook?

Delene100

I get confused with worse and worst.

‘Worse’ is the opposite of ‘better’
‘Worst’ is the opposite of ‘best’ - both ending in -st, which may help you to remember.

Exactly Mollygo. As we always said in the National Writing Project in the early 80s, "Writing is a craft, you learn to write by writing".
I remember being shocked in my first teaching post, by the very poor standard of literacy of letters from parents. I don't think there was ever a golden age of literacy.
I also wonder how many people who looked at the link to the Key Stage 2 tests got the fronted adverbial right. 😂😂😂

For toetoe, it never WAS "presAnt", and I first went to skool in the 50s. It's "presEnt" for both meanings. It's also "presEntable" if you look passably tidy.

In general, the standard of education has fallen off a cliff in the last 30 or 40 years, with some lousy English (see just about any F'book debate?!), and the History & Geography levels have also gone down the drane.

There** seems to be a widespread surge to blame 'dyslexia' (funny how they seem able to spell the word quite well?!) though the occurrence of that affliction seems vastly higher than when I was little? People also widely blame the predictive text on their** phones (**sorry, that's possibly they're or there, all kwite opshonal these days), though I'm unclear why that issue stops folk checking the message before sending it?

Celeste22

I'm surprised the number of times I see the word " draws" instead of 'drawers' (eg a chest of). That terminology appeared several times on GN recently.
The other one is " I'm going to lay down" instead of lie down . You lay something down ....eg, " I'll lay this on the table.

But Celeste22 that implies that the generation who use GN can’t spell either.
Weren’t we taught spelling?

Same here crazyH- I often think i should have been a proof reader and get paid for it🤔😆

AuntieE

Since the 1960s, it has been assumed by many teachers and parents that if children hear the correct pronunciation and read the correct spelling of words often enough, they will automatically speak and spell correctly.

My sister was really annoyed by that when her children came home with uncorrected spellings. Her attitude was that if you spell a word incorrectly often enough it will become ingrained.

I assured her that we were still rigorously teaching spelling, but the waffle fed to us by experts was that if children saw too many corrections they would be unwilling to write at all.
Many schools ignored that, but obviously, many didn’t.

To try and repair the damage, there was Letterland

Then of course phonetic spelling which helps many, but not all children,
e.g. Jolly Phonics with its tricky words for those words that don’t fit any pattern.
Read Write Inc whole reading writing and spelling scheme and Letters and Sounds.
I think there are over 40 published schemes approved by the government, but they should all follow the phases for sounds being taught.
Of course the famous If you don’t use it, you lose it. statement is especially true with reading and writing. If you don’t read, you don’t extend your vocabulary or acquire visual memory of how words are spelled.
If you don’t use your writing skills, you may not remember how to spell.

Here's the cover

Are children taught to spell? No, like map reading It's a lost art form, or skill at any rate.

I agree with your post Babamaman but please tell me what's a tart TA?

I used to care about accurate spelling and grammar. My DC would show me their creative stories to read but I couldn't see beyond the spelling errors.

Then I read Bill Bryson's Mother Tongue which is both amusing and informative about spelling and grammar.
I relaxed after that.

I'm surprised the number of times I see the word " draws" instead of 'drawers' (eg a chest of). That terminology appeared several times on GN recently.
The other one is " I'm going to lay down" instead of lie down . You lay something down ....eg, " I'll lay this on the table.

AuntieE

Are children still taught to spell? Or how to use a dictionary?

Since the 1960s, it has been assumed by many teachers and parents that if children hear the correct pronunciation and read the correct spelling of words often enough, they will automatically speak and spell correctly.

My experience, both as a teacher, and as as a learner, have shown me very clearly that this so-called natural method, just does not work.

Those linguists that thought it would, overlooked the fact that for the first five or six years of our lives, we are continually corrected for slips in our first language.

Second languages are subjected to corrections in the school-room, but not when you are using them in the "real" world, as it is considered impolite to correct an adult or even a teenager. Bilingual children are corrected in both their languagues, but , there too, this process tends to stop when a child is about twelve.

I suspect that the tendency to confuse similar words is due to spelling not having been considered important.

Were you still teaching during the introduction and implementation of the literacy strategy?
This page will give you the 2025 papers for the end of Key Stage 2 (age 11).
www.gov.uk/government/publications/key-stage-2-tests-2025-english-grammar-punctuation-and-spelling-test-materials.

4forallweknow thanks, simple. I know the difference between a noun and a verb. Although it was cruel, I think the Scottish system of teaching was the best. At the age of 5, I was trotting to a private library with my father to choose a book or two for a penny each.

Charleygirl5

A lot depends on where and when people are taught. I can spell, and mental arithmetic is second nature to me, but nothing beyond that for the latter. I was educated in Scotland during the late 40s and early 50s, and it was hammered into us, literally. Are children taught times tables now?

One word flummoxes me, and that is practise/pracice. Any bright suggestions please?

If the end of practice is ice, that is a noun like ice. If it's ise, that's not a noun so it must be the verb. That's the way I was taught anyway. Same with advice and advise etc. Maybe that helps?