dogs

SueDonim Wed 21-Apr-21 13:04:15
I’m appalled at your post, Grannyrose suggesting that tiny children need to have self-defence training to protect themselves against dogs. Talk about victim-blaming! How about dog owners having complete control over their animals?? Then we’d all be safe!

I wondered if anyone would react like you have.

Children need training in all sorts of ways how to keep themselves safe.

Of course car drivers should always obey the rules, and all adults should be nice to children but we still teach children how to cross the road safely and give them advice on "stranger danger". We would be failing in our duty as parents and grandparents if we did not.

Unfortunately the world is not always a safe place and sometimes bad things happen. Anything that helps our children survive these bad events is surely good.

Children do need training. My placid spaniel was grabbed around the waist by a 3 or 4 year old girl. No warning, we were walking on pavement in a small market town. I heard nothing but suddenly this child was squeezing my spaniel, lying across her body, from her tail. The dog couldn’t see what was happening, she was suddenly grabbed.
I dealt with child and dog whilst looking for the parents. They ambled past, mother smiling ‘I keep telling her not to do that’. I called after their disappearing backs they were lucky my dog hadn’t bitten the child. Talk about totally unconcerned.

This is a depressing thread for dog owners. I share the concerns about the explosion in dog ownership, especially given the impact of lockdown

This is a depressing thread for us all, Iam.
Inconsiderate dog owners and inconsiderate parents are just one example of the self-centred, thoughtless, entitled minority spoiling things for the rest of us.
Other examples which spring to mind are the plague of litter-dropping which now seems endemic in this country and people who think it’s ok to go on public transport in large groups, drinking, shouting and swearing in front of other people.

I love dogs - however there are far too many savage attacks !!! Resulting in serious injury or death. Yes, irresponsible owners are often to blame . My brother had a rescue dog who was always friendly. They took great care of him and he was well trained. As he got older he became bit ' keen' and not so sociable! They were out one day , dog on lead and without warning he lurched at a passer by and bit her arm !!!! Fortunately not a very serious injury but a very frightening experience for the victim . My brother took the dog to the vet the next day and he was put to sleep. My brother was able to contact this lady and tell her what had happened . She was so kind and said euthanasia was not necessary, she was a dog lover! My brother was traumatized by what had happened and could not risk a repeat performance, he was well aware that next time it could be much worse , a child in a bugggy- does' nt bear thinking about!!! I think he made the correct decision.

The “don’t worry it won’t hurt you” type comments are pointless if the person on the receiving end of the dog’s unwanted attention has no understanding of the comment and has an irrational fear of dogs.

I’ve encountered this too often when out walking with my cousin who has severe learning difficulties. He is utterly terrified of dogs and becomes hysterical if one approaches him. We have to avoid park walks because of the amount of dogs running around.

One day we were sitting in an outdoor cafe and a couple had their dog 2 tables away from us. The woman allowed her dog to come closer to our table on the extending lead despite my cousin’s obvious upset. I asked her politely to keep her dog back beside her as he was terrified and got the “but he wouldn’t hurt a fly” response. She did then hold her dog back but was clearly offended that someone didn’t want to interact with her dog.

I agree Iam that children need to be taught how to behave with dogs. I remember when our boys were little, going to friends houses where the mum's said how wonderful their dogs were, as their own children were sitting in them, pulling their ears and tails.

All I could think was 'that poor dog'.

Our boys were always taught to ask a dog's owner before approaching their pet to give it a stroke.

We took on my mum's and step dad's pekingese. He was the most beautiful little dog but because of my step dad, a vicious little bugger and I was constantly telling eager children not to stroke him because 'he's feeling a little grumpy today'. The chances of him biting were unlikely but it would have been irresponsible of me not to be wary, and it was irresponsible of parents not to keep their children in check.

I agree with you Grannynw except that a fear of dogs isn’t necessarily irrational.
If someone’s been bitten by a dog, or knocked off their bike by one, the fear is a learned response and is rational.
The responsibility lies with the dog owner to recognise & accept that some people aren’t comfortable around dogs and that should be respected.
Just as parents should recognise that if their child frightens or startles a dog, it’s quite rational of the dog to react in defence

As a dog owner I have had more trouble off other dog owners not controlling their dogs than I have had off toddlers or children trying to stroke without asking. Can you imagine being knocked over by a Labrador as an adult? let alone as a small 3 year old a lot of dog owners are idiots. I suspect none of us are as we are posting on this thread and several of us have acknowledged our own dogs have issues and make allowances for that!

I am not convinced about the idea of there bring ' no bad dogs only bad owners' Indeed there are many irresponsible owners ! However some dogs are simply ' bad' ! Those dogs should be put to sleep, no excuses , no second chance .

Smile less. I’m very wary of Pekingese: I’ve only met a couple and they’ve both been nasty. I agree about bad dogs. I’m sure I read that some Rottweilers or Doberman are more aggressive because they have been specifically bred to have that kind of temperament. And good breeders will always factor in good temperament when deciding which dogs to breed from. Also different colour dogs of the same breed have different temperaments. Someone who bred Newfoundland’s told me that in a litter that had two different colours their temperaments would be different. And when I had spaniels I was wary of solid black or golden because they had been inbred to get the colour. Many goldens had to be pts back then because they were vicious. I don’t think it’s the case now. And a good breeder will also look at the temperament of their puppies and match them to the right homes. We were advised to have one of the other puppies when we got our current dog but wanted her particular colour (didn’t want to be reminded of the dog we’d just lost) and she was quite challenging at first. So much work is put into puppies in the first few weeks by good breeders. Ours was used to travelling, having her claws clipped (we had a tutorial on how to do it ourselves): they were handled by her children from birth etc etc Were given a variety of food so the puppy wasn’t picky. I’m sure that people have bought puppies over the past year that haven’t had anywhere near that amount of work put into them or been able to socialise them properly. It’s a perfect storm isn’t it.

MayBee70

GrannyRose. What should I do when another dog runs up to my on lead dog? I tend to shout a lot since she was attacked but have recently started trying to just talk to the other dog and say words that it may be familiar with like ‘leave it’ or ‘sit’. Unless it looks as if it’s going to attack which, thankfully hasn’t happened recently.

That sounds like a good idea.
Myself, I generally stop and let the dogs sniff each other and then walk on gently encouraging my dog to stay at heal. Fortunately, it is very rare for me to encounter another dog that is aggressive towards mine.
When it's the other way round and it is mine that is off the lead it can be more difficult. I watch the body language of the other person and if I judge they are nervous about meeting mine I call him and put him back on the lead.
Walking a dog requires constant vigilance and I hate to see people with dogs distracted or not paying attention. This is particularly noticeable when they are on the phone.

The last couple of glorious weekends we have gone for walks at a couple of local seaside resorts.
I swear dogs outnumber people, hardly anyone has one dog, they have three or four on those separated leads. The owners often seem oblivious to what they’re doing.
My granddaughter is absolutely terrified of dogs, always has been, and she’s a bag of nerves all day, and my grandson stood in some dogs mess.
I know that there are a lot of really responsible dog owners, but we live in a rural area, and often use footpaths, and if I had a pound for every time a dog owner says ‘He won’t hurt you, he’s only being friendly, he just wants to play’ I’d be a bloody millionaire!

I’ve had dogs come up to my on lead dog, wagging their tails and looking friendly only for them to suddenly turn round and go for my dogs throat. It’s happened at least twice. That’s why I won’t let another dog near her now. I explained that to someone that had let her dog run up to mine and she just got very angry and said her dog would never hurt another dog. We keep two collars on her now so that more of her throat is protected. It never happened when I had spaniels but sighthound pages are full of people saying other dogs had attacked their lurcher, whippet etc. They do recognise other sighthounds and I sometimes wonder if other dogs regard them as an alien breed.

JaneJudge

As a dog owner I have had more trouble off other dog owners not controlling their dogs than I have had off toddlers or children trying to stroke without asking. Can you imagine being knocked over by a Labrador as an adult? let alone as a small 3 year old a lot of dog owners are idiots. I suspect none of us are as we are posting on this thread and several of us have acknowledged our own dogs have issues and make allowances for that!

Thank you for understanding.

It’s so depressing to see the way that thing have developed with dogs in recent years. My oldest son is still scared of dogs after being nipped by a pack of daschunds that lived next to us when he was a toddler but otherwise, we’ve never had a problem with dogs until the past five years or so when it’s become an epidemic.

All this nonsense, too, about ‘fur babies’ I think it elevates animals to human level - over the years we’ve had a couple of dogs and numerous cats and in no way have any of them been my ‘fur baby’. I love them dearly and take good care of them but put them on the same level as children? Nope.

SueDonim I also am puzzled by how behaviour around dog ownership has changed over the years. I grew up with dogs from childhood till I left home and I loved them all and was heartbroken when they died.

But back then walking the dog was just that, put the lead on the dog and go for a walk. I’ve only become aware since my daughter and Sil got their first dog 2 years ago that it’s now common practice to stop next to oncoming strangers while the 2 dogs say hello by having a sniff at each other. During which the owners make idle chat about their dogs. I was walking my daughter’s dog yesterday and a woman stopped with her pooch for the mutual sniff. Her dog started to pull on the lead and she said “oh he’s really displaying typical teenage behaviour today, I’ll be glad when he’s out of this phase! ?

Part of our dogs training involved walking past another dog owner with their dog, saying hello and moving on. It was meant to show that your dog will sit patiently next to you if you meet someone. My dog, that has no recall whatsoever when off lead is wonderful at that particular exercise. She’ll wait patiently for ages while we chat with people (pre pandemic that is). I’m wondering if dog owners doing these classes think the whole point of it is for the sake of the dog and they’re meant to then stop and chat to everyone with a dog so the dogs can meet each other? You socialise your dog so it doesn’t turn into a reactive dog. But people think you socialise your dog because it’s vitally important for it to have friends? As far as I’m concerned we are our dogs ‘pack.

MayBee I could be wrong but my impression of the band who believe dogs need to “say hello” and sniff nose to nose are unlikely ever to have been involved in good dog training.
The exercise you mention 3 or 4 handlers and dogs setting up a casual chat is as you said, to train your dog to sit and wait, to ignore people and dogs.
Treating dogs like children/fur babies is causing all manner of problems

Yes. That’s what I thought. We only did at at one training class, which was the best one we attended. The worst one was one where all the dogs were put in a pen to play together at the end of the training session. My dog loved it so much it’s all she wanted to do. It did prove that she wasn’t nasty in any way but it made her obsessed with playing with other dogs and I wished we hadn’t gone to it. The other two classes we went to were great and I learned so much from them.

So today we walked down to the beach with our dog on lead. Saw a dog in the distance whose owner put him on a lead when he saw us. Thanked him for doing so and got chatting to him. His dog was a Lancashire Heeler, quite a rare breed now. He (the owner not the dog) said he liked whippets but didn’t always take to other dogs . As we were chatting (socially distanced) a family came towards us. Parents and two young girls, one of whom had a French Bulldog puppy on an extending lead. The man kept his Heeler on a tight lead which is good because the little girl was letting the puppy just run towards him. I did shout to the parents ‘please be careful’ but they completely ignored me. This is how dogs and children can get hurt. These people had no knowledge of different dog breeds and, on top of that had the puppy on an extending lead and we all know the dangers they can pose. A few minutes later we were giving our dog a treat for being good and another dog runs up to DH jumping all over him wanting a treat too. Nice dog admittedly but ended up with the owner having to get far closer to us to retrieve his dog than we’d like.

Be careful if you are in the Newquay area of Cornwall
and maybe other grassy areas around the country.
Six dogs have been bitten by adders in the last few weeks.
The vet's bill for one of the dogs that was bitten was £1,700 pounds.

What do we do MayBee70?
I’d ban those extendable leads but I’m not in a position to do that. So I avoid anyone using them. An extendable lead is a bit of a red flag for me -

News headlines this morning, a 12 month old child taken to hospital with serious facial injuries after dog attack. 27 year old man arrested, dog removed by police.

I think there should be a proper code of conduct for all dog owners. Thinking back to our conversation with the Heeler owner his wife had been injured when their dog had been attacked a while back. The dog was badly injured, too. Add to that the fact that our dog had been attacked and was lucky not to be badly injured and it had left us traumatised. So that’s a small group of people in a situation where another injury could have happened.I do use extending leads sometimes but am very careful when I do. Gives our dog a bit more freedom on the beach and and I’m not keen on long lines.
We had a dog on an extending lead run into the road in front of our car a while back. Thankfully we were watching out for it and slowed right down. It’s owner didn’t even notice!

I thinkn GrannyRose's advice re children and dogs was eminently sensible and in no way "victim blaming". Children need to be taught how to behave around all animals and how to treat them with respect. We have always had dogs - we lost our much loved 13-year-old Lab back in June and right from the start, our grandson, now three-and-a-half, was taught how to behave around him and to be gentle with him. We have just got a new Lab puppy and the same applies there. I'm firmly of the opinion that there are no bad dogs, only bad owners, despite what some on here have said. In fact, I prefer most dogs to most people. I never trust anyone who says they don't like animals. To me, that says all I need to know about the person.

Apparently there are now 10.1 million dogs in the UK, twice as many than there were in 1971. This means 24% of the adult population now have a dog. This figure has gone up from 7.6 million ten years ago.
So we have a small country, high population, crowded cities and towns, and too many dogs and people crowded together means more incidents and bites all round, especially as people today seem incapable of doing anything responsibly.