extreme dog breeding on Panorama right now.

There are a lot more regulations attached to certain breeds here in France. Rottweilers, Bully breeds etc have to be registered and owners interviewed as to their responsibility toward the animal and the public. The dogs also have to be muzzled when out in public areas.

Just saw a picture on Facebook from the Doberman Club of America with yet another picture of a dog with cropped ears. And everyone is saying how beautiful it is….

I’ve just read that the breeding of flat faced dogs, French bull dogs and pugs for example, is to be banned in the Netherlands. To follow Doodledog’s question about how such a ban could be implemented, the Netherlands is prepared to implement such a ban because of animal welfare. These dogs have breathing difficulties, often need c sections and more.
Slightly different problems than with xl bullies but many similarities. Unethical breeders, dogs bred from unhealthy, poor temperament lines.
Veejay - that’s just the kind of ill informed aggressive owner attracted to xl bully types

I have recorded that programme to watch.just saw a clip.
Poor dogs and they won't be treated well I bet

While walking my dog a few days ago.a puppy stopped to have a sniff at my dog
The puppy wasn't on a lead.I asked what breed and how old.
The man with it said was a something bully.didn't quite catch it.
The poor pup was shouted at.to "get here now or I will put you on your lead " It was only 14 weeks old and I felt so sorry for it .just by the way he shouted at it.
I can only imagine how it will be treated .no need for shouting at it like that.I
We were coming to a road to cross.and I pointed out that cars came down there very quickly and a poor little Jack Russell was killed there a few months ago
The man said thanks and put the puppy on a lead.and almost dragged it across
I didn't like the look of him either

I saw a programme about stolen works of art the other week that pointed out the link between international criminals and art theft ( the criminals buy stolen paintings and, if they get caught for their ‘day job’ use the paintings to get their sentences reduced: this is in Italy by the way).So the first thing I thought of was how far reaching criminality is. So, the cause of that I drugs and the root cause of that is poverty. What I don’t get is why anyone would want a deformed dog? Surely they have to be delivered by C section? I need to watch the whole programme (I nodded off).

Yes, but wouldn't people just not register?

Obviously the fact that not everyone would abide by a law is not a reason not to have it; but in this case I can't help thinking that reputable breeders would have more hoops to jump through and dubious ones would carry on as before.

Well it’s needs legislation that all breeders have to be registered, visited, and reviewed at least annually
They need to pay a fee to be registered and they need to be immediately shut down if found to be in breach of any rules which are set out as part of their registration

Then through social media buying/ selling sites it will be very easy to see where these illegal breeders are and they should be shut down immediately heavily fined or serve a prison sentence

Of course it can be done it just so lax and these people are making millions of pounds on the suffering of these poor animals and the stupid, stupid people who get caught up in the need for designer dogs are as much to blame

Thank you for the link Fleurpepper, I've just watched the programme.
Sobering viewing.

Well, some will always find ways to circumvent the Law. But that does not stop the Law from being made and every measure taken to put it into practice!

I have said above, that in many countries all dogs have to be chipped, by vet and checked by a vet, before being entered in a legal national register, which is administered locally and shared at national level. And owners have to pay a sum every year, to cover the cost of said register (depending on country or region- about £50). It ensures any dog lost can be quickly found, any dog abandonned can be quickly checked against the owner, and those breeds can be controlled, or even stopped.

It does work elsewhere, why could it not work in UK.

Iam64

Ear clipping is illegal in England. Tails can only be docked by a vet if the dog is going to be worked. Working Spaniels the obvious example because they work through brush and those long fluffy tails pick up thorns etc thst can lead to infection

I’m live and let live but - I’d ban xl bully dogs. A trainer friend did 3 individual sessions with one at its home and her enclosed field recently. She advised the owners the dog was unsafe and unsuitable for their home with young children. She refused to continue working with it because of her risk assessment on her own safety .

It's already been pointed out that I didn't see the programme, but if you don't mind me asking Iam, how would you ban them?

Make ownership illegal and destroy existing dogs? Make breeding them a criminal offence?

Is it possible for them to be accidentally bred - this might be rubbish, but I'm thinking of a throwback, or of two legal dogs making puppies?

I'm not disagreeing with their being banned, but wondering how it would work in practice.

ExDancer

Sorry, that's off topic.

No it isn’t ExDancer. It explains why things that seem unkind are necessary.
Unlike ear docking a cruel thing to do to a helpless puppy

It is wicked and I m not an over the top dog lover I like them but nothing more but it’s absolutely cruel wicked and should be against the law
That awful man and his wife who are making tens of thousands out of breeding deformed dogs appears to be within the law as he’s breeding the males and not the females (if I got that right)

How long is it going to take to make the rules more foolproof and start getting these idiot, greedy breeders where they belong behind bars

Sorry, that's off topic.

I couldn't watch it.

As a sheep farmer I can explain why sheep have their tails docked - its to prevent 'fly strike'.
Sheep fleeces can often get covered in faeces and long tails make this worse. If you take the trouble to Google 'fly strike' you will see sickening pictures of sheep being, almost literarily, eaten alive by the blow fly maggots that are laid in that faeces. If left untreated they die. (the sheep, not the maggots).
It will turn your stomach.
Why otherwise would you go to the trouble of docking lambs tails? Its not something you do for fun, its a welfare issue.

I couldn’t watch it,the same as I’ve never been able to watch the film War horse would find both just too upsetting …😓

Ear clipping is illegal in England. Tails can only be docked by a vet if the dog is going to be worked. Working Spaniels the obvious example because they work through brush and those long fluffy tails pick up thorns etc thst can lead to infection

I’m live and let live but - I’d ban xl bully dogs. A trainer friend did 3 individual sessions with one at its home and her enclosed field recently. She advised the owners the dog was unsafe and unsuitable for their home with young children. She refused to continue working with it because of her risk assessment on her own safety .

Doodledog ''The trouble is that banning breeds never works. ''

why does it work in many countries? Why is it not possible in the UK?

Those involved shouldn’t be call human. Disgraceful.

Yes, fashion dogs are a real issue too. But not at all what this thread is about, and not at all the subject of Panorama yesterday. A friend's daugter also got a Frenchie for his cute factor. Nothing but health issues and that had to put him to sleep aged 4.

Again, thread is very specific, about extreme dog breeding for sheer brute strength and extreme brute looks, for all the wrong people.

In so many countries, all dogs have to be chipped, registered with national register with vet report, a fee paid to keep such a register to be paid every year, and those breeds banned. If reported, caught and destroyed.

I couldn't watch the programme, and won't pick it up on iPlayer, as I'd find it too upsetting.

My daughter has a Frenchie, who is very much loved, and a fun-loving happy little clown. I would be very sad if anything happened to him, but I don't think the breed should be allowed to continue as is.

Oscar (the dog) has had a number of operations already, and none of them are uncommon in Frenchies, which have breathing difficulties and other problems. Fortunately, my daughter can afford the very high insurance that paid for the ops, but not everyone can, and the dogs suffer. Even she says that she wouldn't have another one, much as she loves Oscar.

The trouble is that banning breeds never works. By definition the people breeding fighting dogs (which Frenchies are definitely not) are criminally inclined and not dog lovers. They don't care about the dogs' suffering and aren't afraid of the law. The same probably applies to people who buy them. ]

I was going to say that the Kennel Club, Crufts and similar organisations need to get on board, and amend their breed standards so that the dogs are bred differently, but then thought that the criminal fraternity are unlikely to show the dogs, and will have their own family trees that will be about fighting ability rather than appearance.

Sheep don’t get their tail cut off. A band is used to constrict the flow of blood and it falls off - something the local red kite, a carrion eater, know well.
Please see this link from the RSPCA.
www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/farm/sheep/keyissues

nanna8

Foul. Mind you, sheep get their tails cut off which I reckon is just as bad. A lot of those lambs faint, Ive seen them. Cruel.

Please nanna, this is not comparable. And there are very strong health reasons for this. Most have tails docked in less cruel ways now anyhow.

Could we please stick to the OP's subject.

Available on u-tube now

www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH8HfmgjQf8

warning, not for the fainthearted

Foul. Mind you, sheep get their tails cut off which I reckon is just as bad. A lot of those lambs faint, Ive seen them. Cruel.