Charlotte Dujardin

I think it shows that we all have a responsibility towards our animals, be they working, show or just pets. It's good to check ourselves from time to time.

People are extrapolating all sorts of nonsense on here. Just because someone objects to horses being included in competitions such as the Olympics, where the very nature of the high stakes involved means that extreme lengths may be taken to ensure the animals perform, doesn’t mean they object to all “pets”. (though I personally would draw the line at keeping anything in a cage)

What about sheep dogs?

I suppose if sheep, cows, pigs were all left to live wild and domesticated animals too, then the cats would sort out all the pet hamsters, the terriers all the pet rabbits and guinea pigs and the sheep dogs could have a lovely life rounding up all the sheep.

🤔

Some animal rights activists are of course revisiting their opposition to hordes and dogs as ‘pets’.

Well, it is a logical progression, isn't it?

If people believed that you shouldn't compete horses because they don't 'consent', why does this not apply to other animals with which people compete?

And does an animal 'consent' to living in a house and being expected to conform to human requirements for their behaviour, or being kept in confinement all day and only exercised on a lead. Or, some cats are never allowed out of the house... Or animals kept in cages?

If horses weren't kept for pleasure and the interest of training, competing and making a relationship with them, they would die out or at least become a rarity. Would this be a good thing?

Likewise, would it be a good thing if the keeping of animals as pets were banned, on the grounds of it being exploitative of the animals and failing to 'respect' them?

Shall we set them free to lead their doggy, catty & horsey lives, fending for themselves as nature intended?

Peggy would dance on her hind legs when her food was being prepared but not so much now she’s older.

My spaniel sings and dances on her hind legs. She does it if treats are being prepared, no one asks her to, in fact the behaviour is discouraged. The lab in the other hand ‘does’ obedience, an anathema to that spaniel

Joseann

A girl from our dog training school won the Dance Class at Crufts in March. I can assure you that that dog is treated super kindly, the same as all the others in the class. It just loves to perform. I think it's the owner and animal relationship, (and the intelligent breed), that sets them apart.
That's not a stick, it's a violin bow by the way. 🎻

Our small dog used to dance on his hind legs and one of DD's dogs does it all the time - no encouragement or training, it's just something she likes to do.

Our school was good. My instructor was a serving police officer from GMPs mounted officers. I’d had a serious fall, my confidence gone. She had me doing low jumps and hacking in a relatively short time.
I agree about some pony club events - the mums often reminded me of the mothers shouting ‘advice’ to their primary school children at sports events.

Some animal rights activists are of course revisiting their opposition to hordes and dogs as ‘pets’. My two dogs are very happy with their status in our family

She sounds very much like my own daughter, Iam64. She always refused to use a crop too. Fortunately our little stables was a friendly, family-run place with no pressure or hassle, but I did see some very bossy, harsh instructors at some stables and at some Pony Club events too.

Good post 52bright, of course I say good because I totally agree with you. The timing of this vid being made public is a separate issue.

One of my daughters was an excellent, skilled calm rider. We had lessons and hacked at a good riding school. By 13 she was being selected to ride the young more challenging horses. Her refusal to use a crop irritated one instructor occasionally but her quiet hands and ability to manage/bond with the youngster she was riding won the instructor round. I was the mum standing in all weathers, watching lessons. I thought of that watching the 19 year old on the horse being brutalised by an ‘expert’.
It’s often girls who are obsessed with ponies and horses. My girls are heading for 40 now and talk about Whisper and Danny from their happy riding school days. They’d have run a mile from brutality as would the owner and instructors at their riding school
I suppose CJ also loved her horses. Her skills are evident but money making of a big kind is relevant here

The treatment of that horse is shocking and I can't believe it was some kind of one off that might occur when someone was stressed. She had no shame or embarrassment about behaving this way in front of others.
The young girl on the horse was a highly competent rider who had a sponsor. She would have seen appropriate use of a lunge whip before this session. She asked Charlotte twice 'why do you have to hurt him'. Charlotte didn't deny her use of the whip was hurting the animal. She acknowledged it. She replied 'because he is crap' showing her intention was to hurt.

There was casual conversation going on in the back ground. Someone talking about road traffic. This was a private riding barn. Presumably the people watching knew Charlotte and didn't sound shocked at her methods so it seems likely they've seen her training like this before.

If the horse hadn't been hit many times in two minutes she would have denied that this is what is seen here. Her admission that she is 'ashamed' is acknowledgement that what it looks like is the reality. She didn't seem in any way ashamed while she was beating the horse. I'm sure she is totally ashamed that her methods have been exposed.

The timing of the exposure is, in my opinion, an entirely separate issue. I agree that it is terrible that it's taken years for this video to come to light. I think it is also true that there has probably been an ulterior motive in releasing this footage now, but that in no way excuses such cruelty to an animal.

A girl from our dog training school won the Dance Class at Crufts in March. I can assure you that that dog is treated super kindly, the same as all the others in the class. It just loves to perform. I think it's the owner and animal relationship, (and the intelligent breed), that sets them apart.
That's not a stick, it's a violin bow by the way. 🎻

Anniebach

Quote MissInterpreted Thu 25-Jul-24 15:13:01
Most people don't train their dogs to dance.
Many train them to take part in things like agility competitions, flyball, scentwork etc - and there is actually such a thing as canine freestyle, which is like dog dancing to music.

Dogs do not dance,

They do - I've seen it on Crufts, and I'm almost certain a girl and her dancing dog won Britain's Got Talent one year.

Maybe the problem isn’t with the dressage riders but the level set by the governing body which puts pressure on them to push themselves and their horses too far? I do feel sorry for Charlottes horse who would have been trained to the minute and deserved to be immortalised. I would assume he will have to be sold. To be fair to them they could have continued competing with Blueberry but they wanted to give him a good retirement. I had assumed he was being retired to go to stud but he’s a gelding. I’m sure there was a lot of controversy about the way Totillas was trained back in the day

Quote MissInterpreted Thu 25-Jul-24 15:13:01
Most people don't train their dogs to dance.
Many train them to take part in things like agility competitions, flyball, scentwork etc - and there is actually such a thing as canine freestyle, which is like dog dancing to music.

Dogs do not dance,

Most people don't train their dogs to dance.
Many train them to take part in things like agility competitions, flyball, scentwork etc - and there is actually such a thing as canine freestyle, which is like dog dancing to music.

I've just seen that video and was shocked. That poor horse. This can't have been the first and only time she'd done that. It just looked like typical training. .
Re WW1 I remember my grandad talking about the poor horses used for transporting between the trenches. Before he joined the Black Watch he'd been in a volunteer Indian cavalry regiment and loved his horses.

The following is from British Dressage:

"The concept of dressage dates back as far as 350 BC when the Athenian historian and soldier Xenophon completed his 'On Horsemanship' manual. However, it wasn't until the 16th and 17th centuries that dressage began to develop as an art form with the sporting side arriving in the 19th century."

MaizieD That horses were trained by the Greeks for the battlefield is no excuse for dressage today. Horses have been used in warfare for thousands of years. Apparently Britain lost 484,000 horses in WW1 which equates to 1 horse for every 2 men apparently.

I would suggest that training dressage horses to the highest standard is as demanding of the animal as training to be a ballet dancer or gymnast at the highest level. The difference being that the latter chose to do it. The horses don't.

I accept that horse riding is good exercise. My first and only attempt when I was in my teens was an afternoon at a stables with some friends, mucking out with a reward for doing so. It was my last attempt because when I arrived home and stripped for my bath my torso was covered in a rash. I'd forgotten that I was allergic to horses.

From my childhood reading I also accept that many little girls forma deep bond with their horse, in the same way as I have formed deep bonds with my dogs.

Dogs are trained to obey their owners, partly so that they stop or come back when called in order to prevent accidents. Most people don;t train their dogs to dance.

Dujardin wrecked her own career by her behaviour. I can’t accept it was an error of judgement, I’d be interested in what way she describes deliberately attempting to scare a horse can be an error of Judgement. What kind of role model did she set out to be for the 19year old on the horse.

I rode for many years- never seen horses I’ll treated. I haven’t trained dogs but over the past 25 years I’ve been involved in obedience classes, agility, scent work and recently man trailing with my dogs. We use positive reinforcement along with voice/ relationship between dog and handler. Also playing to the breed - my lab will retrieve from water all day given the chance. That spaniel loves scent work.
The horses trained in dressage will also usually have abilities your average riding school ponies lack.

I can understand why the girl herself may not have felt able to speak up at the time. I said, I think on the other thread about this, that I once spoke up about a woman being cruel to a dog - and was roundly chastised for 'daring' to speak to an adult like that. However, those who were with her - including whoever was filming - should have said something at the time.

Disgusting behaviour from Charlotte du Jardin.

In response to the people who have commented about the person who filmed the abuse sitting in it for 4 years - When I watched the video, it seemed to me that the person filming it was actually laughing at what was happening in front of her. It's quite possible that the video has now come to light through another individual.

In relation to a dressage whip not being hard or stiff and not designed to actually hit the horse -
I could be wrong as the sound was not very clear, but it seemed to me that CdJ actually said something to the effect that the whip was so sh*t because it didn't hurt the horse. The number of time CdJ thwacked the whip at the horse demonstrates that she wasn't using it as it is supposed to be used and was intent in causing pain or distress to the poor horse.

IMHO cruelty to any animal is never justified, not even in so called elite sports. But the fact that this cruelty took place in an ordinary lesson makes it all the more serious. I do wonder if the 19 year old rider was so shocked by what was so shocked by what was happening that she felt it impossible to speak out at the time.

Ah, OK, thanks.
At 19 I'd have cried my eyes out to experience that.

I'm nor a horsey person, though.

The rider was a 19-year-old girl whose sponsor had paid for her to have a lesson with Charlotte Dujardin.

Also, who is the person sitting on that horse?

It just makes me think this must be somewhat standard, because I'd be beyond shocked if someone did that to a horse I was riding.

Yes, I take on board your point, too.

As someone said though, no point in knee jerk reactions.

They have waited until it gets the attention that needs to be given to animal abusers in sport.