And my daughter too

Sometimes it's a good thing that we can't delete things on here, because I think dear number would have deleted the post as soon as she'd pressed the button. As it is, a problem shared is a problem halved and, as one of the nicest, kindest people on this forum she deserves all the back up she can get from us all. Things can only get better from now on, number .

number

Oh number there is no way I would have thought you hijacked the thread. That's not the way things are here. Anyone is free to add their "bit" and move a conversation along and it's so true that sharing a problem with others is often a great weight off the mind. Even if we can't do anything practical to help each other, a friendly ear and a kind word never goes amiss does it?

You really seem to have a lot on your plate and from your post it would seem very little time to yourself. I agree with others who have said that perhaps you should approach SS again and tell them what you have told us here. Your DD does sound like she needs someone else to tell her (she smells) and teach her how to look after herself properly. Have you/she ever considered residential care where she can live independently of you whilst giving you the peace of mind that she is being looked after? I can understand if you wouldn't want to consider this but you really need to be looked after a bit yourself or at least have some time to relax. In the meantime could one of her sisters not bring some "pampering" stuff over (bubbles, shampoo etc) and suggest a pamper evening or afternoon with her? I realize I'm clutching at straws here but that's what we do don't we?

Thinking of you dear number

number, well done for bringing this to Gransnet. You know that I echo all that's been said. xx

number big {{{hug}}} nothing worse than being in your situation.
Gillys suggestion of a pampering day at home might be a good one, have a quiet word with your other DDs and see what they can arrange.
But sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind xx

All very good advice, gillybob's post regarding Residential Care/Independent Living is perhaps what you should be looking to now. Sometimes things have to get worse before we realise that there needs to be a change. The best time to make sure your daughter is going to be looked after in the future is to start the ball rolling while you still can. Don't leave the situation as it is until it becomes an emergency later when you may suddenly find your own health makes you unable to carry on looking after her.

You are one of the nicest people on this forum number I hope things are sorted soon for you.

Denial is such a difficult problem to tackle. I remember when my mother was in her eighties she started to smell really awful and every time I tried to broach the subject I got short shrift. My sis-in-law is a retired health visitor so I enlisted her support and she didn't pull any punches. It upset me to see mum so upset but it did the trick and she agreed to have a wet room installed. When we cleared out her bathroom in readiness for the builders we found all the lotions, potions, bath oils, nice smellies etc., that she'd been given for Christmas and birthdays for goodness knows how may years. She just hadn't used any of it.

I do hope the problem resolves itself soon.

Thank you all so much for your replies and suggestions, and your kindness.
No, she doesn`t have learning difficulties, just doesn`t bother to keep clean, also won`t admit to being incontinent, but then, is she, or is it just laziness?
No way would she even consider going into residential care, although that might be her only option after we`re gone. Next time I`m at the doctor`s I`ll mention it, and see what he/she says. A pampering day is not really viable. seeing as she can`t get in the bath, and she won`t undress in front of anyone either. She drenches herself in perfume every morning, but the effects don`t last. I`ve had another go at her tonight, but it just seems to flow over her head.
What with her and her dad, it`s no joke, but hopefully his situation will improve, if only slightly, after his stoma reversal operation.

PS, she has been seeing the consultant at our local hospital once a year for many years now, regarding her rheumatoid arthritis and joint replacements, but after the last visit she was told 2 years to the next one, and all they are concerned with is how she is healthwise, and she does get clean for when she goes there. The GP doesn't really know her, she never goes there, only leaves the house when she absolutely has to. The last time was to an ATOS meeting regarding her benefits, over 2 and a half years ago.

number you've been given some really good advice - please, please, take it.
Don't mention it next time you are at the doctor's. It will sound like an afterthought to the main reason for your visit. GP's appointments are only 10 minutes long and he or she will need more than that to listen to your story properly and think about how you can be given the help you not only need, but deserve.
Do it tomorrow, and don't hold back.
Please.
and ((hugs))
PS I think grannyknot's idea of a family intervention sounds very good.

I agree. Make a special appointment to discuss it with the doc. Tell him she hasn't left the house for two and a half years. They need to know that she is like this, or they cannot help her. Or you.

Number could you go to see her GP to express your concerns about her general well being.
S/he probably could not comment on your daughters situation as she is an adult but it might be helpful to present the GP with the details of her health issues.

From what you have said about her behaviour it makes me think she might have some sort of social phobia. Has she always been very reclusive?

My sister's not quite stepdaughter is like this. She comes home and virtually hides in her bedroom although I have met her at the odd meal out with my sister and her father and she does hold a conversation.

The issue is that if she does not want to see GP it is going to be very difficult to make her and the same applies to seeing a social worker.

How much caring do you have to do for her on a daily basis and how would she manage if you did not put this care in? I am trying to think a way around this problem of her refusing advice or support.
Maybe her sisters are the best best bet to deliver the message about her lack of personal hygiene. Then the message comes from a person of her own age rather than Mum being seen as nagging.

Number Perhaps the possibility of having to go into residential accommodation could be the lever to persuade her to take more care of herself?

If your health were to fail, and she wasn't keeping herself clean or fed, then there would be no alternative. If she has always relied on you to look after her, she probably has an image of you as eternally young and fit, and the concept of you not being capable any more is alien to her. Make sure she knows your limitations, and that you will not always be there to cope, and that no-one else will live with her as tolerantly as her mother.

Not wanting to undress in front of anyone, or have anyone help her, is all very well if she does it all herself, but if she is not "nice to be near" then she will not get willing help when she does need it.

I`ve never actually thought of her as reclusive, just antisocial. She`s never been one for going out, but has got worse as her condition worsened, a she has difficulty getting out of the house, and walks with a stick in a shuffling manner, with her head down all the time, and her hair swinging all over the place.
She gets herself in and out of bed, dresses herself, but I make all her meals and drinks, make her bed, put her clothes out for her as she pulls half the wardrobe out when she gets them herself, plus, if I don`t put them out, she rarely changes them herself. I also get her tablets out, but if I left the top loose I suppose she could do that herself. Then, like I said earlier, I wash her hair, but she has to be practically bullied into that, and won`t have it washed if the weather`s cold.
I have taken note of everything that`s been written above, but if she won`t go to the GP, I can`t make her, she`s not a child. And we knew about the arthritis society, she`s always refused to join, says it`s for old people.

Number I've only just seen this thread and agree with everyone else - this is not something you can, or should, be dealing with on your own! Please get help with this problem now before it gets any worse! Let us know what happens.

I meant to say that when DS1 had a stroke, aged 36, he refused to join the Stroke Association as it was for old people but was instead referred to Headway which was brilliant for him at the time. Is there an alternative that would be appropriate for your daughter? DS joined Different Strokes on line too, talking to other people of around his age and in a similar situation. Your daughter plays games so I wonder if there is a forum she could join?

Number I have just quickly read through this thread and if I ve missed this and its been said before forgive me I don't think its your daughters disability that is causing this 'lack of life' I think she is mentally ill and needs help from this angle You don't give any details as to how long she has been disabled....is it from birth, childhood, adulthood did she have a normal happy childhood? She is showing classic signs of a deep clinical depression shutting herself away from the world, your description of her shuffling along with her head down,- if she sees no one they wont see her, remember how kids put their hands over their eyes and believe they are invisible to everyone else. Her only friend is her computer - why- because it doesn't judge her, doesn't see her disability I think she is fearful of anyone seeing her or worse still rejecting her so best to get involved with no one its a self preserving act. If she has no friends no one outside the family sees her no one can hurt her She has lost or never had any pride in herself from what you say her Dad is no role model and you are probably so run ragged you cant have time to put lippy on or go to the hairdressers. She is not a child to mould, this is ingrown for years and will take a lot of work outside your circle.... its much, much bigger than not being clean. She wants to be unreachable to the world because to be reached and rejected is far worse.
Do see her GP and ask for mental health input she has retreated into the safety of her unwashed cave and needs gently bringing into the light There will be great resistance but you are not the one to help nor do I think her sisters who probably have the very lives she will never have it needs to be outside intervention Disabled people can lead magnificently fulfilled lives but she doesn't believe she can

I remember as a young pre teen being very jealous of my Mums lovely long manicured nails that everyone commented on I knew mine would never be like that so I started biting mine off as low as possible and then got lots of comments cross ones from Mum and Dad and ouch doesn't that hurt etc from others remember negative attention is better than none at all

Sorry I ve gone on a bit good luck

There a plenty young people suffering from variously levels of disability number she is certainly not alone, however I think that most people do try and make the best out of a bad situation, which makes me think that perhaps it is not necessarily your daughters disability that makes her the way she is. You say she may not be incontinent but wets herself in the chair. That is not normal behavior for anyone. I do think your daughter needs to be assessed and then at least you can begin to get to the bottom of it all. Maybe she is incontinent and can't help it, in which case an incontinence nurse will be able to help her (and you as it can't be pleasant). I know I shouldn't be offering advice (I'm pretty hopeless) but I feel quite sad to think of you running around like a slave and not getting the help you deserve. It might be that your DD is far more capable of looking after herself than she would have you believe in which case this will definitely need outside, professional help. I also agree with others who have said you need to make an appointment with GP just to discuss this urgent matter and not "slip it in" during the course of another visit.

I so agree with Bluebelle's very good post.

There have been so many helpful comments on this thread, number. You and I are in contact a lot, so I'm not going to add to these, as we've talked about the issue often, but in your heart of hearts, you know that only you can start to make this change. You think you're not strong enough to do what's needed, but you most definitely are. Things have been building up over the last year or so, and your own health has suffered quite a bit. If your other daughters and sons can't understand what needs to be done, try and gird your loins and make a double appointment at the surgery. The GP may not know your DD, but you can tell him. He'll have all her notes, nevertheless. You are carrying a tremendously heavy load. x

Yes, also agree with BlueBell. Deeply vulnerable people are often very adept at shunning others and themselves.

number I've only just seen this and I think you have been very brave in sharing it with all of us. As usual on GN there has been a lot of very good advice. I think you now have to be very brave and tell your GP exactly what the situation is because I think you might be the sort of person who minimizes their own problems when you get into the surgery.
Is there anyone who could go with you?
I wish you all the luck in the world

One last piece of help Number presuming you do go to GP (hopefully, it does take a lot of courage but would be worth it for all of you) before you go to the doctor write down bullet points of all the non normal behaviour, because if you're anything like me and probably most of us the doctor says 'how can I help you' and you go blank and stutter a few things out Do some homework before you go it will be helpful to him/her and you

Maybe one of your other daughters would go with you?

Such a terrible situation to find yourself in, and may I add my opinion for what it is worth? I would have probably done the same as you and carried on looking after my daughter, but putting it bluntly.....what happens in 10 years? or 20 years? Do your family honestly think this situation can be allowed to continue? When you are 81 and your daughter is 61 it could be a nightmare situation for all. You and all the family need to start planning for the time when you are no longer physically able to cope with your daughter, it cannot be left until there is a crisis or a tragedy. Apart from all of this, what about you? What about your life? You are only 71 and need to enjoy the years of comparative good health and mobility, have a couple of nice holidays, do things. Sorry to be brutal, and I don't mean to hurt or offend, but this situation cannot be allowed to continue, it is not healthy for you or your daughter.If your daughter is depressed then she needs treatment, if she is not depressed then she needs a good talking too, the family is made up of many people and should not be based on the needs of just one.