Support for family members cut out of loved ones lives 4

I give up. Totally inward-gazing, no point anyone trying to let in any daylight. With physical wounds, air and sunlight help healing. That is also true of emotional ones.

And no, that was NOT intended to be hurtful or upsetting, just to let you see the view from outside the closed circle. Neither were the recent posts that you have found so cruel as you claim. That was just how you chose to interpret them.

If you turn on this post, you will prove the truth of it.

It is pointless to try and explain no one can understand unless they have gone through then living hell of estrangement.

My letter to mail seems to have triggered this off.

As said earlier we need to respect each other's pain and some of these posts are less than supportive.

I have sent you pm Anya and am deeply sorry if you were upset

I hesitate to prolong this conversation but the recent contributions from the usual posters have simply indicated to me how detached from reality you are. There was nothing unkind in anything Anya said, but you have chosen to think that there was.

Anya if you're still there ((hugs))

I don't usually post on this thread, but having read the posts of the last day or so I am saddened by the attacks on Anya which were totally unjustified. Well done those who defended Anya and tried to put forward a voice of reason. It seems you are right Elegran, the thread is totally inward looking, and I think there is little point in paying it any further attention. I shall not post on here again.

celebgran, I'm sure you are right that no one can explain or understand the pain of estrangement. I have always had the greatest sympathy for those of you going through this. Equally, no one can understand the pain caused by the death of a child. We have no idea who may have experienced this unless they choose to tell us, and some may not. I'm glad though that you at least seem to have reached out to Anya.

How dare both of you make those comments?

It it totally unnecessary

Yes I did reach out to Anya and In Response she sent. Me a nasty pm so would be nice if all the trouble makers could just wander off and upset other people now.

Tomorrow will be my 7th birthday without my daughter and I don't need these nasty comments.

What you get off on by trying to be so nasty beats me is trolling I expect.

Sorry to have to come on this thread again. But any 'reaching out' has resulted in me blocking certain people from PMing me.

Let's all clear this thread now and leave these people to their grief.

And again, thank you for your support and understanding.

How dare you accuse us of trolling, Celebgran?
You know very well we are all regular posters and we are perfectly entitled to join in any discussion on Gransnet.
Elegran and Nightowl in particular are both always scrupulously fair and reasoned in their comments.

Yes, let's leave them to it. They are not yet ready to let go of their grief - or their anger.

Nothing nasty in my PM, unless it was asking not to reply as this was all to upsetting.

You are attention seeking Anya if not you would t have sent me message in first place good idea go back to your little small minded group.

Their is nothing fair minded in the posts we have all got our own pain and respect is called for. Not snidey comments about something none of you have experienced. That doesn't see. A word you understand.

I won't be responding again.

When they are ready, when they can remember the good times without raging about the bad ones, when they can forgive, when they can tear up the accusing letters filed away for perpetuity, they will look back on these years when bitterness spoiled their lives with amnazement, and say "Why didn't we move on sooner?"

I hope that point is reached sooner rather than later.

Elegran you sound so very childish like a school playground!

I am amazed at the lack of awareness and sensitivity shown by some posters on this thread, especially towards Anya. You seem determined to find insults where none are meant and to take offence where none is offered. And to accuse regular and reasonable posters of being troublemakers and trolls is bewildering.

I'm out as well.

I'm on a few forums, but I've never read such rude posts as those from Celebgrany.

I have read the last few pages on here and can see how the unhappiness of estrangement and loss is making some people very bitter too. Bitterness is a choice we all have when faced with such unhappy life changing experiences such as the loss of a beloved family member, estrangement from those we love or serious illness and disability.

When caught up in bitterness it is my experience that ones whole outlook becomes distorted and it blocks the way to positive outcomes. If you can shift out of that frame of mind, difficult though it is, life does become bearable again and begins to improve.

Also, my view, for what it is worth, is that support should exclude collusion in a persons misery. Whilst one can empathise with someone in a very tough place, it is not always helpful to keep patting them on the back and echoing their unhappiness. Sometimes it is far more supportive to help someone change gear so they can get to a better place.

Good luck and best wishes to all of you coping with loss and estrangement.

Wise words Pen.

A thread that's always difficult to read. Accusations directed to a poster who has been dealing recently with difficult family problems are totally unacceptable.
Clearly the only ones who are welcome here must be ready to nurture the negativity of their peers.
This is such a closeknit and exclusive thread that I'm surprised you don't confine your 'discussions' to pms or emails since any interventions from those who are perceived as outsiders are so unwelcome.

Morning ladies from a very frustrated Smileless. This is my 3rd attempt at this post. First attempt, I was on page 17 and hadn't realised there was a page 18, didn't know if my post would go on so started again. 2nd attempt, I'd all but finished and you know how long my posts can bewhen the stupid laptop decided to re-boot, up date or something so took me off linewhy do they do that?.

So here goes attempt number 3. Went to the gym this morning and on my way out saw ES with GC. He was on his little bike wearing a crash helmet and looked sooo sweet (GC not ES). ES heard a car so looked up and right at me. That's the first time he's looked directly at me in I don't know how long. We've seen him twice in as many weeks while walking our dogs and he's completely ignored us, as if we don't exist so it was strange looking right into his face.

You've certainly had a lot to cope with Rubylady. It must be so hard to deal with this estrangement when you raised your children alone; I know Yogagirl will be able to identify with you better than I can. Knowing that there is contact between them and your abusive ex must be very difficult; it's like rubbing salt into the wound isn't it. I'm glad you're a chatter box and hope you'll come on here and chatter away as much and as often as you like.

Thank you for your good wishes Pennstemon. Feelings of bitterness are not a choice but of course holding on to bitterness can be. For me, as time passes the bitterness like the pain is beginning to subside but it's hard not to feel bitter when the son who know longer wants anything to do with you and wont allow you to have contact with your only GC, regularly walks past your house with your GC by his side.

I don't believe that we collude in one anothers unhappiness; we share our pain and offer support where we can. We encourage one another to move on, to let go of not just our pain, suffering, anger and bitterness but of our EC too. None of these feelings are easy to over come and some find it harder than others to achieve. Far more is shared and given in pm's between regular posters than is seen on this thread.

7 years Celebgran, a long time; not the type of anniversary any parent thinks they'll ever have to face. Like Yogagirl it's 3 for us and on the 30th of this month it will be 3 years since we last touched our GC.

Hope you're doing OK Rhinestone. How was the wedding Yogagir? With so much going on on this thread the last few days I forgot to ask.

Take care everyone and stay strong.

Oh smileless how good see your post I have been far too upset to say much more, but your are like a breath of fresh air!

THIS HAS HAPPENED before and how very sad that people not in our shoes themselves so clever to make unkind rude comments.

Whatever floats their boat.

Yes 7 years long time at least we don't see her like you see your estranged son and little one tho sometimes wish we did.

Thank again smileless I have dr appt a 3 50 about the cyst and really didn't. Need all this nastiness. Heyho that's life.

Mcem I will just say that derogatory remarks about regular posters are also unacceptable.

Hear, hear, may I say that derogatory remarks about ANY poster are unacceptable, that respect for others' grief and bereavement would not come amiss.
Goodness knows I am reading far too many unsympathetic posts which shock me from people who should be capable of showing more understanding. Let's try " support for members who have LOST family members too?

Elegran , I am totally bewildered at the response to your sensible, sympathetic and measured post by Cgran. Your sentiments should have offered hope, but once again we see that hope is not welcome on this thread

Many here have suffered the loss of a child by death..... many have suffered the loss of a child by family disputes...many (like myself ) have suffered both losses in their lives and I can assure you the permanent loss of a child (however old) through terminal illness, accident or ,again in my own case, though SIDS, cannot be compared to an estrangement. After all.... where there is life their is hope. With death, unless you are a really convicted Christian, you will never meet again ,never see them reach their potential..
With one child I have 40 happy years of memories of holidays, academic achievement , shared experiences , tears over dozens of prince's who turned into frogs, only for her to meet at 42 a toad who has completely taken her over.

I should have another daughter, one I never shared any of those emotions with. I know I will never see her again. The other one ? Well when the scales fail from her eyes she will see the Toad for what he is... a money grabbing control freak. When she eventually comes to her senses I may ..or may not be around . It matters not to me at all. The pain of losing my baby daughter will never leave me.
Very few of my latter day friends even know we should have had 3 daughters . It's in the past, I have moved on after 35 years but there are days when I still grieve for the one I really lost. And as I approach my own end I seem to think of her a lot more than I did.
The self -flagelating posters on this thread always have hope .Hope is something denied to bereaved parents.

This thread is 6 months old, the subject matter isn't new but it's been renamed and put on a different forum and yet, the same boring criticisms of regular posters and their posts continue and in the main from the same agitators.

How disingenuous to throw up your hands in horror if offence is taken at a post when making the make accusations you do. We are accused of being exclusive, close knit and negative. It's suggested we shouldn't have a thread, confining ourselves to pm's and emails because we are not interested in the views of others, only wishing to nurture the negativity of our peers. So, we're supposed to take all of this on the chin; you're allowed to criticise us and take offence but we're not supposed too.

I wish there was a 'yawning' face because it's very tiresome and very boring and interestingly, looking back at the COOTL threads, seems to happen about every 6 months.

"Accusations directed toward a poster who has been dealing recently with difficult family problems are totally unacceptable". I don't know who you are referring too mcem; unless a poster wishes to share something of that nature we cannot know what they're struggling with and without knowing cannot offer our support. But why has this criticism been made of us when anyone reading this thread knows of the difficult family problems we continue to deal with, and still feels it's acceptable to make accusations against and criticise regular posters on here.

I still pm two ladies who sometime ago stopped posting on the open forum, not because this thread is exclusive and self serving but because of the hurtful and unsympathetic treatment they'd received from less regular posters.

You accuse US of being inward looking and nurturing the negativity of our peers; perhaps you should look closer to home.

Absentgrandma I found your post very moving