Families - who'd have 'em!

It's a difficult one; however, you can't pretend they don't exist because they do and are very much part of your loving family.

It sounds as if your niece and her OH have come to terms with the situation but her parents have not and I do hope they don't make her feel bad about it - or perhaps they feel guilty and think for some reason it is their fault.

There is a lot of keeping quiet, and sweeping under the carpet in your family.

I am always of the opinion, that different families do things in different ways, and so keep quiet about how it is done in someone elses' family.

I will play it by ear. There is no way we cannot talk about the GC and I will do so; if they wish to change the subject then they are free to do so.

My sibling is somewhat controlling (e.g. wanting to make rules about whether and up to what age we should all agree to send/not send cards/presents to various relatives), but I think means well; we are both the product of our parents and the life we had as children, where there was a tacit agreement not to say anything about the fact that my parents argued incessantly - we pretended that all was well. We do discuss it now that both are dead.

I do not see them very often as they live away, so I will just bite the bullet for 24 hours. It will not hurt me.

I just think THEY are missing out so much and wish we could discuss this openly, but it seems to be taboo, along with some other things that we mustn't mention to their child (now an adult): the fact that one of them has been married before; the fact that one of them is much older than the other......etc. I am always expecting to put my foot in it! - I am very good at that!

But I will hang on to their virtues and respect their wishes - it does me no harm I guess and it is only for a short while. Nowt so queer as folk eh!?

What I would do is just carry on with a conversation that you would have with any relative or friend including information about your GC.

Don't talk about them all the time because this could be very boring, and this doesn't just apply to GC but anything which is a big part of your life.

I remember some years ago a got stuck next to a keen photographer at a party who talked none stop about photography what a bore, I avoid people like this wherever possible.

We are new grandparents, we have an 18 month to our daughter and hubby and a newborn to son and wife but I just mention them as a small part of any conversation I have with friends and even relatives because what you don't want is to hear someone going on and on and on about their GC.

I would certainly not exclude the GC at all.

Just how I see it.

My brother and his wife do not have grandchildren and are not likely to.

They quite like ours but are not overly involved. I think my sister in law might wish she had some but my brother is content.

Sometimes I feel a little envious of their free life, clean and tidy home and plenty of money to themselves.

Of course I wouldn't be without the grandchildren but .....

You have got into an entrenched pattern of behaviour and it will get worse as it becomes more entrenched. I would change the pattern.

And,it has only just occurred to me that we put up with my brother and sister in law's dog which is a substitute child as they have 'odd' relationships with all their children! They brought it once and now, when they come, we have to arrange the house to accommodate the blessed thing! We should have said something to begin with but, as we didn't, the situation continues.

Doesn't help Mishap but perhaps illustrates how you've got to this position!

I find it very odd because if they like children ( which they must do if they want grandchildren) they could have a close relationship with their great nieces and nephews.
I would be inclined to start a change. Do it gradually with your family 'just dropping in'. I would also talk about them, as they are a major part of your life.

Good post janea.

That is what happened with my brothers and I (fuelled by mum!) and it was only resolved when Mum became very ill and we had to sort things out together. A waste!

I'm with Coolgran. I'd be inclined to ask her to drop round 'unexpectedly'. Just for ten minutes - "on my way to see soandso and thought I'd drop this knitting pattern in you wanted, oh hello, I'd forgotten mum said you were coming" - sort of thing. They didn't actually say when you asked that they don't want to see you DD and DGC. Your DD did said she'd like to meet them. She must be curious to see what they're like - and, it might work!

After all, I don't suppose their being fit and healthy stops them talking about all the things they've been doing that you'd give your eye teeth to be able to do.

That sounds a little harsh, Farnorth, if you'll forgive me for saying so.
It's easy for us, presented with a scenario, to see that things are not 'right' here, but in real life, situations can develop and become exacerbated over a long period of time, without our really realising that we are being controlled by someone, or a situation.
I guess that's what has happened here, and mishap is right to take stock and take a fresh look at the dynamics and think about whether she wants to continue as things are, or put the relationship with her sibling on a new footing.

"The condition seems to be ..."?
Have they not made things clear, other than by behaviour such as ignoring the content of your email?

You are being bullied by them, by feeling forbidden to even mention your DC and DGC, and also by having to politely accept conversation about views of theirs which offend you.

What will happen if you do mention your family to them? Will they implode on the spot? Or just take a massive huff and flounce off?

It's up to you if you want to continue pandering to them during occasional visits or if you want to try to sort it out and maybe get them to act like grown up people.

Anyone, friends or family who don't want to hear about/see my DGC are dead in the water. End of.

You are very tolerant, Mishap. There is no way I would put up with that sort of control.

Love me, Love my family.....Like it or lump it.

I think that, when they realised there would be no grandchildren they probably built some sort of wall to protect themselves and they can't move beyond it. We had a problem with infertility in my family and I never knew what to say or do for the best. I suppose as well [and I don'r want to pry by saying this] the reason for the infertility might make a difference to how they feel eg if it is a genetic problem they probably feel a lot of guilt as well as a sense of some kind of bereavement. Maybe [to be fair to them] they desperately want to keep in touch with you and this is the only way they can do it. Very sad for everone. I know, for several years when we had this problem I found it very difficult .

My sibling is very keen that we should keep up our contact, and that is good. But the condition seems to be that we do not bring our GC into it.

They are missing out which is a shame, but there is nothing we can do about it. It has been like this for a long time, but I for some reason it just got under my skin a bit this time.

It is very sad Mishap and also putting a terrible responsibility on their child's shoulders; as if they are to blame for the lack of interest in your family. One of my friends lost her son, a lovely young man, our sons went to school together; when we bump into each other she asks after my DS and we chat, she is a big enough person to not to make me and others who have not lost our son feel awkward. Good luck with your visitors, hope it isnt too awkward for you.

Yes - it does seem unhealthy, but I am not prepared to upset anyone - there would be no point. My DD has decided it would be more tactful not to come over when they are here, and I think she is right - she does not want to get embroiled in any uncomfortable situations when there is no need. My sibling will be content just to see us, so I will go along with that. I will brush up on some rude jokes to keep the party going with a swing!

I think it is their loss. And that is sad.

I do think this is sad.
For quite a long time DH and I thought we would not have any offspring, then they arrived quite unexpectedly.
However, I always adored my nephews and nieces and am Godmother to some of them, and am always interested in their children's activities.

Your DGC exist, and I am sure if they took an interest in them and their lives it would enrich their own.

Mishap From what you say about their attitude to other things, could it be that even if they had grandchildren of their own, they still might be rather mean spirited? I'm an only child but I feel sure that if I had siblings I would want to have a close relationship with their children and grandchildren, even in the unfortunate circumstances that you mention. I can understand people in their situation feeling twinges of sadness and regret about what might have been, but I really don't understand them being so resentful of close family members.

I had a very small extended family because my dad was also an only child and my mum only had one brother. That brother, my uncle, had three children and whilst my mum was fond of his children and interested in what they were doing, my uncle had no interest in me whatsoever and I felt he almost disliked me. Some people are like that - they are only really interested in their own children/grandchildren.

I have sympathy for their feelings of loss but I find it difficult to have sympathy for the way in which they deal with those feelings. I think, however disappointed they are, it is unkind and hurtful of them to make it clear that they want nothing to do with your grandchildren and to make you feel that you can't talk about them. I tend to agree with those who feel you should not go out of your way to keep your grandchildren away from them and I certainly think that you should be able to mention your grandchildren in their presence.

Mishap We were visiting a Knights Templar church - which was very old (of course). I thought you said before that the church in your village dated back to the Knights Templar. Perhaps I'm thinking of the wrong poster. (Or it's very possible that there are other such churches).

What a dilema Mishap, and one that has grown in the face of your consideration and sensitivity.

As I've got older, I've become more tolerant about many things,but less tolerant of people who try and control others. Life is tough in different ways for all of us and most of us simply dust ourselves off and try and live our lives in a decent/loving way that doesn't cause distress to others. Most of us will have friends/family who have either not been able to have children or have suffered losses in their relationships (see the threads on gransnet about estrangement)

Sending best wishes for your discussions and like you, I hope for the best

I've just seen your message jings and I think your SatNav must be on the blink or you have come to a false conclusion. Would that we did have a pub with good food in our village! - it is rubbish and not for the faint-hearted! But I'm glad you had a good meal wherever you were!

Thank you for all the ideas that have been put forward. It does help to get other perspectives on it all. I do not know what is behind it, except of course for their sadness at their situation; but the sadder thing is that they never see my children, their own nieces. That is a real shame. I think that all I can do is to just ignore it all; proceed with normal conversations (which will include the family) and hope for the best.

It is a sorry situation, and they are the losers in all this.

I'd suggest that if your dgc come into your conversation then so be it.

If your own DD and dgc arrive unexpectedly ..... there is little that you can do about it

An awkward situation and I do find family differences upsetting.