I agree with the suggestion that you write a letter or email apologizing for getting it wrong, but stressing that your intentions were good. If you promise to try again, they might meet you half way and appreciate your efforts to change.
Best wishes for a more relaxed enjoyment of parent and grandparenthood. If you find it a struggle, as you may do to start with, please come back on GN, where you will again find much support. 
Gransnet forums
Relationships
Have no idea what more we can do
(88 Posts)I am new and didn't know where to turn.
I have three sons, the oldest son is married and he lives quiet far away. We usually see him a few times a year, sometimes his wife will come and see us as well. This particular daughter in law is shy but overall I believe we get on ok.
My second son lives about an hour away. We have always been quite close and he is always calling and coming to visit. We don't often have to arrange to see him as he often makes the plans himself. He is not married but he has been with his current girlfriend over a year now. She is lovely and I get on very well with her. She will also often contact us herself and seems to genuinely enjoy spending time with us. She has very good family values.
My youngest son lives the closest to us, he is married and his wife recently had a baby. My first and only grandchild. I have always been pretty close to my youngest child. I don't hear from him as often as I do my second and we often have to make the initiative to invite him over but overall it's rare we would go more than a month without some kind of contact with him.
The problem is my youngest sons wife. On the surface I would say we get on well. She is a very nice and polite girl. She is shy (not as shy as my other daughter in law) and often keeps herself to herself. I have tried to get to know her, to find some common ground but it is hard. My oldest sons wife is very into fashion and beauty so we can bond over that. My second sons girlfriend is very easy to talk to, and she is quiet happy to sit there with us over a bottle of wine and some food for hours. My youngest sons wife however I struggle.
She is very resistant to talk about herself. I have had mixed results talking about her family or her work. She is polite and will listen if I talk about myself. We don't really share any common interests. In fact whenever I do try to talk to her it always feels like she is waiting for a polite moment to leave the conversation.
She is not as bad with other members of our family but overall you can tell that she doesn't enjoy getting together with us and after an hour or so she is ready to leave. My son says that she finds social situations difficult and doesn't enjoy them. I find this odd, how can you not like spending time with people? My son says her family rarely have huge get togethers. He says she finds the number of get togethers we have overwhelming.
I know however her problems with me run deeper than just being shy and socially awkward. I first noticed a change in her when they were planning their wedding. I tried to help them out as much as I could, from my perspective it looked like they were struggling. Her parents didn't seem to be helping at all, so I took it upon myself to help them out. Eventually it got harder to get an answer from her, when I questioned my son he said she felt that I was taking over. He said that she feels like this is my wedding and that she isn't even sure if she wants to show up. I was shocked and upset. I was only trying to help and if she didn't like something then why didn't she just say?
On the day of the wedding my son was very nervous that she wouldn't turn up. She was still angry at my involvement and by this point, apparently, so was her family. In the end she did turn up and it was a wonderful day. She seemed to enjoy herself, and although she seemed to be actively avoiding me I assumed that she would now appreciate my help. I was wrong because after the wedding I started seeing less of her. I asked my son about this and apparently she was still angry about the wedding and she blames me for ruining her day. She feels like she got the wedding I always dreamed of. They got married in 2010 and as far as I am aware she is still pissed off about the wedding.
A few years ago my son and daughter in law were having a few financial problems and they had to move out of their home. They had nowhere else to go so they decided to move in with us. I saw this as my chance to finally get to know her. I wanted her to feel comfortable and welcomed into our home. I told them that all we expected was rent. We would take care of all the household shopping, cooking, cleaning, and laundry. As long as they tidied up after themselves and paid their rent on time they didn't have to worry about anything else. This didn't go down well with her, apparently, she insisted that she at least did their laundry.
It seemed silly to me, if I was already regularly doing my own laundry that she would then do her own but to keep the peace I agreed. The laundry soon became a bit of a battle, as I predicted we often wanted the washing machine at the same time. She would often throw my clothes on the side and then put her own washing in. I also like to hang my clothes outside. We don't have much room to hang washing inside, plus I feel they dry better outside. My daughter in law seemed to take offence to this and insisted on only drying her washing inside no matter what the weather.
A few times I would move her washing outside and she would then angrily move it back inside. After a while she stopped taking her washing upstairs if it was dry, she would leave it laying around for a couple of days. If I attempted to take it upstairs for them this was met with the same anger as when I moved their washing outside. In the end I gave up and just let her do what she wanted. I was fed up trying to fight her.
She also slowly became withdrawn from us. When they first moved in my daughter in law made an effort to spend time with us but very quickly she became withdrawn. Towards the end I never knew if she was in. It was almost like she would sneak in and out of the house. If she was in then she would go straight to the bedroom and close the door. I have no idea what she did in there because you would never hear a sound unless my son was home.
She also rarely ate anything. Before she lived with us, she didn't have a huge appetite but she would at least finish a meal. Slowly over time she would eat less and less around us. If I made a comment then she would claim that she wasn't hungry. I started giving her less and less food but still she refused to finish a meal. She started to loose weight which worried me because she was very thin to begin with. I started buying food which I know she likes but she didn't touch it. I raised my concerns to my son, he told me that it made her uncomfortable when we spoke about her appetite and eating habits, he said we should just leave her alone.
They lived with us for just over a year and then suddenly my son announced that they were moving out and they were going to live with my daughter in laws parents. This wasn't a huge shock to me, by this point we were barely speaking. I was however extremely upset, I felt like I failed. All I wanted was for her to like us and for her to feel like she was part of the family. After they moved out I asked my son why they left. I knew the answer before he told me but I wanted confirmation. He said that my daughter in law thought we were interfering and that her every move was being watched. She felt that she never had any privacy and that we were constantly judging her. They are still living with get parents and they seem to be getting on well, they do their own shopping, cooking, cleaning, and laundry. They also seem to have exclusive use of two rooms. We still don't see her often and if she does come over they never stay for long.
She must have fell pregnant roughly four months after they moved in with her parents. When they told us she was pregnant I was over the moon, I never thought I would ever have grandchildren. Out of my three sons my youngest was always the most likely to have children but my daughter in law always stated that she didn't want them. I am not sure what changed, they haven't really stated whether the baby was planned or not, but I was ecstatic.
My daughter in law struggled during the first trimester and also at the very end but overall she had a very straightforward pregnancy. She ended up giving birth 8 days before her due date to my beautiful grandson. I thought that her pregnancy and having a baby may finally give us something in common. I hoped that finally she would feel comfortable being with us and we could put the past behind us.
I saw even less of my daughter in law whilst she was pregnant. I went to a lot of trouble of buying food and drink which suited her current food tolerances and cravings but a lot of it got chucked away. I tried to talk to her about how she is feeling, what things she had/ what she still needed, her maternity leave plans, childcare plans, and how people around her are treating her. She was polite, answered all my questions but basically nothing changed. She still doesn't want to spend longer than is polite speaking to me. I asked my son and daughter in law if there was anything we could do or buy to help them out, and the answers was no. They had everything under control, they didn't need help from anyone. I was extra careful after the wedding not to interfere or give any advice but she still didn't seem happy!
My grandson is here now and my son had 4 weeks off work when he was first born. During this time my son sent us lots of pictures and we saw my grandson 5 times, the last time my son bought the baby on his own. He stated that his wife needed some time to herself. My son is back at work now and I have no idea really when we will next see the baby. We have a few family things planned in the summer which my son says they are coming to but in the mean time it's gone very quiet. My son hasn't sent any pictures and I doubt my daughter in law will bring the baby round herself.
Before the baby my son visited us at least every couple of months, either with or without his wife. I did hope that now the baby is here that we would see them more often but I don't think that will be the case. I don't think my daughter in law is purposely stopping me from seeing my son or grandson but I don't think she is planning on making any effort to see me herself. This is upsetting for not only myself but also my husband. We just don't know what more we can do.
I too think a letter - keeping it simple, keeping it loving, keeping it short - might be a good move. Just say you got things wrong and want to put them right. If you are sincere, and patient, things may in time mean you can be closer to all three of them.
Margsus asked me if I had sons or daughters - both 
She wondered why I said parents of the groom should be well in the background. I meant with regard to wedding arrangements, and particularly where the bride is concerned, because it is too easy to come over as interfering. A bride may find it easy to be frank with her own mum, but the groom's mother has to be extra careful to offer help and support only when it's clear it's needed and asked for. That's all I meant
I agree that NellyBu has been gracious and open-minded in her response to our barrage, and I applaud her for that. The comments and thoughts are made with the best of intentions and hope that things can be made better for the future, which is, I am sure, what NellyBu wants.
I wish you luck with this - you have taken the first step in standing back and looking at the situation through others' eyes, and in seeking advice.
Nelly. Having read your response, I understand now, where you are coming from. I was you as a child, and carried on thinking that I had to fix everything. Because I knew best, didn't i?
But you can turn this around, I did. And I'm much better for it. Mind you, I had turned 60 before I achieved it.
This thread has really made me think. I am always offering to help my DD as I am retired and she works and has lots of her plate. She rarely takes me up on my offers and sometimes it is a bit hurtful. Reading the replies above I realise that she may see me as interfering or it may make her feel that I think she can't cope (which is not true). I will think before I speak in future.
I would caution against writing a letter.
You don't know how it's going to be received and interpreted and if you get it wrong, you can't un-write it.
However well you think you've composed it, it could be perceived in the wrong light by your DiL.
Actions speak louder than words - and in your case nelly, the action should be to step back and allow your son and DiL to find their own feet.
I sympathise with the girl about her wedding. We got married with only 20 people there and my parents in law were not there (they lived abroad) Leave the girl alone, she will have her reasons why she keeps silent.
Let her live her own life.
KateK and Petra I have had to learn to step back. Goodness it was hard especially when they needed help and then I had to jump only to ask how high. I still blush when I remember being asked to drop everything and look after a poorly child abroad and couldn't leave the house with the child and I was so bored that I put their bookshelves in alphabetical order. Nelly blue you can learn from Gransnet but it can be humiliating there are rather a lot of paragons on here.
Sorry iPad changed NellyBu
It's not easy that's for sure.
I think if I was going to say anything to either of them then it would be my son. Throughout this whole thing he has been the one I have spoken to and raised my concerns with and he always told me what is wrong, he has told me time and time again to leave her alone. I never listened to him.
NellyBu - I have had issues with my daughter (me feeling left out and sidelined - a long story which I won't go into). My husband has constantly told me to leave her alone, what she does is none of your business. If she needs help she will ask and if she wants you in her life she will include you. If she doesn't you can't make her etc. I was hurt but I came to realise that his advice (and lots of help from people on this forum) was the best way to go. I now try to sit back and wait to be asked for help or advice or to be included. Things are a bit better all round now. Good luck.
Hope things get better for you, NellyBu. It's sad that you asked your son what to do, and even when he answered you, you kept on at him, again and again. It might be a good idea to tell him of your change of heart
NellyBu,
Mulling over you OP and having to think about the bigger picture has reminded me of the feelings I went through as it slowly dawned on me that my children were learning to stand on their own two feet. Elder daughter was telling (shouting actually) me at 16 that I was 'trying to rule her life' so I began to edit my thoughts and pick my battles. Younger one seemed to need me for a longer time (or so I thought) but she now astonishes me with very mature emotional insight that has actually helped me with my problems whilst at the same time she is flummoxed by changing a light bulb.
I think what I'm trying to say is that no one really tells you how dramatic and drawn out the whole process of 'emptying the nest' is.
Reconciling oneself with the fact that at some point, your children just do not need, all that detailed input one has been used to dishing out.
The cool logical part of ones mind rejoices in the fact that they are standing on their own two feet, making decisions and choices and just living their own lives. However a very needy inner voice is deeply bereaved by the, almost, death of those child/parent relationships one had.
What we have to do is learn to fill the emotional void when they both physically AND emotionally leave home. WE want them to be strong and self reliant but we just do not know how to turn off our inner Mum.
I've had to stop listening to the voices in my head - the 'have not had a phone call for 5 days - something must be wrong' or the 'she seemed depressed when we spoke, what's she hiding from me' (in truth I phoned at the wrong time and I'm reading far too much into her weary voice.
Now I think I've almost reinvented myself. My parenting skills are still used, but I'm now a listener - a sounding board. I have fun buying GC books, toys and clothing (after discussion with their Mum). I've got back to all the creativity I used to enjoy when much younger. I've got a whole room dedicated to sewing and STUFF. We go on really interesting trips and organise our days to suit us, not children. I do voluntary work and long dog walks and spend all day reading a really good book if I want to.
Life has changed, its different, but its OK and I know my girls are doing well out there and that I did a pretty OK job. That's not to say I do not drop everything when GC visit - but boy its lovely when they go home. But what's important because I'm not one of those Mums who pester and plead,(ALTHOUGH DEEP DOWN I COULD SO EASILY BE) they want to come bouncing into our home with huge grins saying things like 'we love your house Grandma' or, on one memorable visit, 'I'm having the best time EVER'.
Its a cliché I know but its all about letting go so that they WANT to come back...and be kinder to yourself, we all make mistakes, its what we do when we know we have that really matters.
Wise, wise words Hilda.
I shall remember the phrase 'turning off your inner mum'.
Thank you
I think the switch on my "inner mum" must be broken.....
NellyBu
Can I suggest that you write her a letter, read then re-read it, then throw it away.
excellent idea boggles.
My other technique is to go for a long walk....have the 'conversation' in my head and then return home refreshed and with the feeling that the air has been cleared.
I have done the 'write a letter and throw it away' thing. It is therapeutic to get it all down on paper, and I feel as if I've clarified everything in my mind. There is no need then to actually give the letter to the person concerned, which would probably do more harm than good anyway. The writing of the letter is for me, not them. I always feel I can move on afterwards and not keep dwelling on the situation and my reaction to it.
Nelly, there is enough advice on here without me adding to it, I think you now know what to do.
I loved your long post Hilda!Agree totally with it.
I hope that Nelly Bu does not feel humiliated, and that she is able to pick the bits of advice that she feels are right for her, and hopefully that there will be a thawing of relationships in the future.
Maybe it might be better to have no further conversations with your son on the subject - he seems to have been pretty clear in his advice to you. It would be lovely for you both to enjoy a conversation on a neutral topic without any underlying tension - I am sure you will get there.
Hello NellyBu. Just a quick word of welcome to GN. These are wise people with lots of life experience, and many of them have had years of learning how to be M/FILs so the advice you are getting is worth considering. It is so hard to back off and let the younger generation get on with it, isn't it? I'm still working at what HildaW calls "turning off the inner mum*. Occasionally I let it slip and am usually told by my adult offspring to back off in no uncertain terms! In the long run, it really is the best policy even though it may feel against what you believe is best.
I hope this hasn't put you off GN. It really is a useful forum. A wee ((hug)) to send you on your way forward.
I condone the advice to back off and leave them to it, hard as that may be. I had a similar situation with my DiL. We were warned by my son that she "doesn't do families" so our warm, close knit family unit was totally outside her comfort zone. I respected that but found it disheartening that she shunned all our attempts to spend time with them so that we could get to know her better. When they decided to get married, they wanted only a 'skeleton crew' and I could empathise with that because we did the same when we got married. I don't like fuss either! We let them get on with the arrangements and the only input they requested was would we sort out some flowers. I did, however, insist that we throw a party for them in the evening so that our extended family and a few friends could meet her. It also gave us an opportunity to get to know the few members of her own family (whom she herself rarely saw but who my son had wanted to invite) who attended. Son and new DiL left after about an hour, at her insistence and though I was disappointed there was nothing I could do about it. I supposed I should have expected it but I thought at the time that it was I'll mannered. We never got to see them very often, although when we did, if not welcoming she was very polite, and I never really got to know her well. We accepted the situation because she loved our son to distraction and she was very good for him. However, sadly she became very ill and died. I listened to the eulogies at her funeral and I thought "this was my daughter in law and all these people knew her better than I ever got the chance to." It left an emptiness in me that I still feel when I think about her, which I do, often, even though my son has since married again. What I would say, is let your DiL know how much you would like it if you could be friends and then with draw from the situation. She is young and with a little more maturity she will hopefully open up to you a bit. I feel that if we had had more time this would have happened with us but it was not to be.
Greyduster, such a kindly brave post - once again Gransnet brings out the best in people.
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