Angry Daughter

Again, many thanks to all the messages, I have made my decision, I am not going at Christmas. The invite was made before this recent episode and whether she understands or not, I can not keep putting myself up for the "will she, won't she" keep her temper. I constantly have to put my personality on hold because something I do or say may upset her. I can not live like this, this is exactly what I had to do with her father for so long, until eventually I lost sight of who I was and didn't like or recognise who I had become. I love her to bits and back, I will just have to sit and wait for what ever may be.
My real worry is not having the contact with the children, I know she wants this to, but I will have to wait for that to.
I have apologised, for everything, I have offered to talk and listen, but I am still waiting for a reply. I am hoping my husband will be able to sallow his pride and apologise to.
My son thinks not going for Christmas is just me wanting to hide and lick my wounds....he maybe right.

Sorry to all, I seem to have lost the thread and posted my last message in the wrong place.

I have just received this email from my son after I told him that I was not going for Christmas, and I am not sure if either of my children understand choices I made I know were wrong but when you have no money and no where to go in the days when Domestic violence was not recognised and the police would do nothing to help.
I have been divorced for 23 years now, and still this horrible man is in my life when I try to keep him out..
And this is what my son says:
Then mum, you'll never repair the relationships with your children. When it comes down to the crunch it sounds like you're not willing to deal with your role and how it contributed to the mess of adults that your children have become. It's just another way to brush it all away and play pretend that this isn't an issue. It is, we both hurt so much because of the choices of the adults around us. We had no choice at all and it is us that is paying the price for it.

Instead of helping us, you're helping yourself and that's exactly what happened when we were children. You convinced yourself you were helping us, but your inaction and avoidance was hurting us.


I think you should seriously reconsider and at the very least don't email her to tell her you're not going.

"the mess of adults that your children have become."

And your son is blaming you for that? Are you sure he is an adult? Sounds more like 6!

Tell 'em to grow up

Your son sounds seriously wet!

3211123rjc As parents we all have to make difficult decisions, some of them may be right, others will be spectacularly wrong - and we often cannot know which is which until the events that led to our decision are long gone. While there are uncaring and indifferent parents who always take the easy way out, the majority of parents think long and hard before making these decisions, especially when it affects our children.

When children are in their teens and early twenties, they are often uncomprehending and unforgiving about decisions made in their childhood that turned out to be not the best, but by the time children reach their late 30s and early 40s they really ought to understand how difficult the decisions people make are, especially, when they were facing up to circumstances like yours.

I think the time has come for you to concentrate on yourself. Your second marriage is obviously happy and successful and I think that you too have been damaged by your difficult first marriage. Do take up other people's suggestions to contact a group like al-anon or seek counselling to help you through this difficult time.

The one thing I agree with your soon about is "at the very least don't email her to tell her you're not going". I think email has taken the immediacy out of conversations about relationships. I know I email/text my DSs and DiLs about such things as "what should I get the boys for Christmas?" However, if there is an issue that goes deeper I use the phone because you can't judge tone of voice in an email. Email is a way of keeping family at arm's length.

It's sad, seems like you're damned if you do and damned if you don't op.

DCs don't seem to realise that not only is the Instruction Manual missing but so much of child raising is driving by the seat of your pants.
Most mums do the very best they can with whatever resources they have available, I know I did but while DS says he had a wonderful childhood sadly my DD would not agree. It breaks my heart she feels this way and I'm only too thankful that we have a great relationship now.

It's so flippin' difficult isn't it?

Hello

I have changed my life by going along to Al Anon meetings, I to was affected by other peoples drinking, and this has given me ways of coping far better than I have ever done in the past. I look at both sides and know I cant change the past, however, I have made a better future for myself and my family member who still continues to drink.
I possibly think your daughter would benefit, but I suspect she feels there is nothing wrong with her.
I hope you can gain some serenity and my thoughts go with you.

B

The description of my son as "wet" made me smile!

I do agree about the Al-anon, will see.

I also agree about emails, but he's in Germany, and I don't think my daughter would answer the phone and I don't think I am strong enough to take her rejection just at the moment.

And I can't believe that I am still learning this parent thing after all these years, but everyone out there who come back to me with comments are helping me feel not quite so alone as I was doing. My second marriage is great, that is true, he has been a rock, but recently lost his daughter to suicide so I tend not to try to worry him too much.

S..t, I have just realised what a mess this all sounds!!!

I've been reading this thread with interest. While I really don't want to comment on the problem here, I would like to ask a question, if I may?

If both children (now grown up) feel the same I'd be inclined to believe that their early days are key to their adult feelings. However, some here on the thread feel that they ought to have shrugged it all off by now and certainly have no right to blame the OP for staying with their drunken father and perpetuating the horrible situation which obviously still haunts them both.

Isn't the point that our childhood experiences go to make us the adults we all become and some of those early traumas/problems will undoubtedly haunt us throughout our lives? Or do you think that there's a point/an age when we should just shrug off the past? If so, when. And how?

I am absolutely of the opinion that there comes a point when one just has to stop bleating, "poor me" about whatever happened in childhood and realise that, as adults, we are responsible for the people we have become and not our parents. I say this as someone who grew up with an abusive father and an anxiety ridden and depressive mother and who married an abusive man who became alcohol dependent as he got older and who became anxiety ridden and depressive in turn.

I went through a period of not speaking to my mother but that was when I was in my twenties and coming to terms with the fact that I hadn't had a rosy upbringing and so that was just tough and I had to get on with life.

From my early 30s I reconnected with my mother, forgave her wholeheartedly for the things I had perceived as being, "her fault" in the process of my growing up and asked her forgiveness for setting unattainable standards for her as a mother and failing to accept that she was just a human being who loved me but didn't always do what was best in every situation simply because she was as flawed as anyone else, no more and no less, and it was unbelievably self-centered and narcissistic of me to expect her to have been, "perfect" for me.

Needless to say, I was forgiven every bit as wholeheartedly and we became incredibly close over the following twenty years or so. I am coming up to the fifth anniversary of her death on the 19th of this month and miss her as sorely now as I did then.

Sadly, my older brothers and sister have remained stuck in the, "poor me" phase of self obsessed childhood. (Even though they are now all well into their 60s) I have no time for any of them. While I don't wish any of them ill, I don't communicate with them and don't miss them one whit.

Time some of these children grew up and stopped focusing inwardly and feeling hard done by. Sorry if that was very blunt. My love to you OP.

Interesting notyetagran. Congratulations for working it all out for yourself and with your mum. The key seems to be that you had a period of estrangement when you decided (I assume) you'd rather have your mum in your life than not. Perhaps the point is that many don't have that space.

notyetagran, I couldn't agree more with you. I did not experience the severe difficulties mentioned by other posters but I had a childhood disrupted by a medical problem and a difficult relationship with my parents. For a short period in my late teens and early 20s I nearly hated my parents, but as I matured, I began to understand the cause of the problems, and to realise that my parents loved their children dearly and always made decisions that they thought were in our best interests, even if they often were not. They too were formed by their childhood experiences and upbringing.

I never achieved the closeness to my mother that you managed, notyet a gran, but I achieved a loving relationship based on understanding her problems and difficulties, and appreciating just how much there was in my childhood that was good and nurturing. It is too easy to let the memory of the problems overshadow all that was good. I am also aware that the capacity I developed to cope with the difficulties in my childhood gave me a resilience in the rest of my life that I have often been so grateful for.

Time some of these children grew up and stopped focusing inwardly and feeling hard done by I can only echo what you say.

Mollie, indeed I did have that luxury. It wasn't quite so much that I decided I'd rather have my mum in my life, rather that I began to see her, from the distance of estrangement, as a human being in her own right and not just as, "my mother". Once I'd crossed that hurdle I was able to look back over the years and view her as a struggling young mum trying her best in difficult circumstances to give her children a better start in life than she had had. (She was pretty much rejected by her own mother for reasons far too complicated to go into here)

She strove to make things, "perfect" for us because she was, under it all, a perfectionist, but used to fall into the trap, as many perfectionists do, that if something wasn't, "perfect" it was, "spoiled" which leads them into the well of despair from which it is so hard to escape. That was her, "crime" no more no less. Yes it lead to a certain amount of what could be termed, "neglect" and that, in turn, would be classed as, "abuse" today. But she wasn't a bad person. She was a much flawed and hurt human being who genuinely wanted the best for her children but often felt so powerless that she couldn't function properly.

At that point I realised that what I really wanted wasn't so much, "my mum in my life", nothing that self-centred; I just wanted to make that sad, lonely human being feel wanted and needed and important to someone. I wanted to see her smile a genuine smile and I wanted to hear her laugh. I got what I wanted and so much more. Because by focussing on her and helping her to heal I unearthed a wonderful, intelligent, warm, caring human being who was prepared to go to the ends of the earth for me and her grandchildren. And that, in turn, took me so far along the road to my own, "recovery".

Very happy for you notyetagran.

I too used this site in desperation when I had a similar fall out with my daughter. The comments from everyone have been very helpful and supportive. Thankfully I think our relationship has improved since her outbursts. Although I was very hurt, I continued to be supportive.

I once saw a clip on TV when Oprah Winfield spoke to a Buddhist monk. He talked about 'deep listening'. He suggested you open the conversation by saying 'I'm sorry you are hurting, please tell me what is causing this unhappiness' and be prepared to listen deeply. He said giving the other person the opportunity to be listened to will lessen their pain and help them move forward. You may not be able to turn back the clock or offer any solutions but you can listen to her hurt, anger, disappointment etc.

Children tend to behave badly with their parents because they know no matter what they will not disown them. It's also a credit to you that she feels able to vent her frustration. I know it's difficult, no matter how old we get we can't escape being a parent.

I hope this help.

Thanks to Qinwa, I to will be supportive, if or when I am contacted, still I guess she is feeling raw like me .All I can do is wait, she knows I love her, and her two lovely, lively, bundles of energy. My husband sent his apologises, so I hope she can see that it's time to forgive. .

Your last post is very beautiful, 321.

I don't know for sure, but I think I would email my son something like this:

I understand that some of the choices I made years ago were hurtful to you and your sister. I am deeply sorry about that. If I could do it over, I would.

Would choosing to go where I'm not wanted help to repair any damage that was done? I don't think so. And clearly, your sister no longer wants me over for Christmas. If she did, she would have reassured me of that when I asked her.

The fact that she hasn't responded suggests that she wants no contact with me, at all, at the moment. I think I need to respect that. This isn't about "inaction" or "avoidance," it's about respecting another person's feelings (your sister's). In fact, if I were to show up, unwanted, at her home, I believe I would be crossing a serious boundary. Unless and until, your sister lets me know that we're still on for Christmas, I'm going to assume that I'm unwelcome and keep my distance.

As for how to tell her... I agree with you that email is not the best way. However, I doubt she will pick up her phone. Nor do I think she would be very happy about it if I showed up unexpectedly to give her this information. Besides, if she has something to say about it, she can answer me just as well by email as any other way. So yes, I'm afraid, I will tell her by email, after all.

OR variation

So I will have to carefully weigh the different types of communication in my mind and decide how I think it's best to tell her.

The reason I gave that variation, 321, is that it's really not your son's business how you communicate with his sister. Nor, come to think of it, is it really his business whether or not you're going to her home for Xmas, unless he's coming in from Germany and was looking forward to seeing you. If so, however, perhaps you can plan to see him on another day, depending on how long he's staying.

But, anyhow, I realize you didn't ask for suggestions of how to reply to your son, so I hope you don't mind that I gave you some. I'm not sure how good it is either. But you know him, I don't, so I'm sure you'll know what to use/adapt, if anything, and what to discard. Also, if you're interested in such suggestions, perhaps someone else will give you some better ideas.

Then again, perhaps you've already answered him or don't intend to. Regardless, I hope he comes to accept your decision. An invitation isn't a summons and people don't have to come if they choose otherwise.

Meanwhile, I agree with those who say your second marriage sounds great! Please focus on enjoying that!

My heart goes out to all who are hurting in this thread..

Carolyn, I'm so sorry about your older daughter. But I think you're very wise to keep your distance and make sure you are never alone with her. There comes a point where a parent has to protect themselves.

Mollie, I agree that our early lives impact who we are as adults. But I don't think that means we should go around actively angry at our parents for their mistakes or that we can't take the bull by the horns, at some point, and say "I'm going to change." If that's too hard to do on one's own, there's such a thing as therapy.

Notyetagran, your story is very heartwarming. Good on you for learning to see your mother in a more sympathetic light and reconciling with her. I'm sorry your brothers and sisters were never able to do this. I'm also sorry you lost them (or they lost you) in the process, but I'm getting the impression it was worth it for the beautiful relationship you rebuilt with your mother. So sorry that she's gone but hope the loving memories help.

Wendysue, thank you so much for your suggestion, I normally have a clear mind about these things and am able to see wood from trees!, different when its your own, isn't it?

I am thinking of using some of your suggestions, as I need to reply to him today. He has always been my supporter as he has gotten older, but is a bit of a drama queen, and "sensitive". I gues he thinks he has a right to have a say. Most of my messages here have said the same, give her time, tell him to back off. I think I have to agree.

So here goes..........

That's the thing, though, isn't it, we can think and think about how we would have done things differently.
We only did what we thought was best at the time, it could have seemed the right thing at the time but on reflection it may not have been.

But getting angry with you now is not the right way to sort things out; you have apologised and you all either need to make a fresh start and move on or someone (not you, your DH or your son) needs to help her through this - what is your relationship with her OH? Does he suffer from her anger or is it just you and your DH?
You can't suggest to her OH that she needs help (that could set her off again), but can you appeal to him for help in trying to mend your relationship with her?

Good luck

Notyetagran. Same upbringing with me. I didn't understand how a mother couldn't protect her children from being hurt by their father until I read about 'battered woman syndrome' and then I understood that she was not capable of protecting us. I felt very sorry for her.

Notyetagran good post. I am glad you saw your mother was only human and did the best she could at the time.

321 Remind your daughter and son their father was the alcoholic not you. Unless your exhusband was physically and emotionally abusing your children while you stood back you don't need to apologise to them. You did the best you could at the time and I am sure you have apologised enough. No doubt your daughter would have blamed you no matter what choices you made. I would guess your daughter is more like her father in personality.

Apologising seems to me to be why your children say you act as the victim. You apologise when your daughter takes her bad moods out on you. You also apologised for tidying up the wrong way. Continually doing the same thing doesn't work and apologising more profusely and tiptoeing around someone's bad behaviour only makes the situation worse.

Don't miss out on your grandchildren over Christmas 321, email your daughter and let her know you have decided to still be there, if she has changed her plans to let you know. She would probably welcome your olive branch, it would be so much better to arrive at Christmas with gifts and get that first hurdle over with.