Support for family members cut out of loved ones lives 5

JustStrollingByYou say that the conversation I spoke of would be us blaming, and telling our EC how they got it wrong. NO that is not what I meant. I am talking about first telling the parent WHY they cut them off. I'm not talking about a back and forth blaming session but working out their feelings and mine. It really doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong , it's listening to the others perception and working it out. Not making the other feel they have to be defensive.
I don't expect my EC to stop blaming and show respect because then we wouldn't have an estrangement would we if they HAD done that. But yes there is no respect given to parents nowadays. How about manners? Where have they gone? Why do these kids have a sense of entitlement? Why do they expect the GP to babysit? They sure expect a lot but give little.

Nina I'm not sure how that article relates to NC? It is about teenagers who seek out their parents to be violent or verbally abusive to them. Sort of the opposite to AC going NC no?

"The children are more likely to be teenage (or the behaviour is more likely to be identified as ‘abusive’ at that point) and are more likely to have previously witnessed or experienced abuse or violence within the family home."

Thanks "Notanan that helps. Can you see though why I get upset about MN advice never to open e-mail from their parents -block their numbers etc. I can only understand that if someone is being bombarded with unwanted contact*

I haven't seen any such "party line" myself I have to say. I personally always open the emails/letters.. mainly because once I see her name or handwriting I'm so filled with dread, anxiety and fear that it's better to just have a look because otherwise I'ld be awake all night imagining what kind of venom was being thrown at me this time. It's better to just read it and get it over with. Nobody on MN has ever coached me to do otherwise. I suppose maybe I should be able to not open them. It might be healthier at this stage. It's not something I've been advised on either way on MN, and I often offload my feelings after opening yet another email on there.

Jenty61 we don't all have to experience the same circumstances in order to understand pain and loss!

Hello all

I've been reading this thread and I've just joined so I can post. Yesterday I spent a few hours on Mumsnet on a thread that was being commented on by adult children who have gone NC, no contact with their parents. I didn't get too involved but I did see that they were stalking parent groups, copying posts then dissecting them with a mixture of mocking and ridicule. I de registered from Mumsnet this morning but I think it pays to be careful what you write and how you identify yourself. Why NC adult children stalk parents groups is a mystery especially if they've chosen to go NC.

Grannieanonymous - I can see why you're upset about MN giving such advice. Having researched family issues for a few years, we have evolved into a culture of blame. But the tables are turning. A new era of Parent Abuse is coming to light part of which is deemed, psychological abuse. Cutting a parent off is such a form of mental abuse. I am posting this article from the British Psychological Society which is making some new observations on the dynamics that are being unleashed against parents along with the recognition that it's no longer the case that parents can be blamed or shamed as they have upto now. Something else is going on. Here's an excerpt from the article that pinpoints one relevant issue.

'Given their access to economic, political and social capital, it could be persuasively argued that it is the parent who has significant power in this relationship. However, the increasing dominance of a discourse of children’s rights over the past two decades has meant that parents are increasingly feeling that their own parental rights are being subsumed (Holt, 2011; Reece, 2009). Indeed, it may be that any apparent increase in parent abuse is one consequence of the way in which government policy has increasingly framed the parent–child relationship in adversarial terms'.

Full article is below.

thepsychologist.bps.org.uk/volume-24/edition-3/responding-parent-abuse

I see constant reference to this being a "support" thread and I seem to remember some chat on the last COOTL about calling the next thread a support thread, so that they would only receive positive comments.

As far as I can see, there are no rules about this on GN. GNHQ have made it clear that this is an open forum (which everyone in the world who has access to the internet can read) and that every member on GN is equally entitled to comment on any of the threads as long as they observe the rules.

If you post on an open internet site details of private family matters, other site members are perfectly entitled to put an opposing point of view or point out inconsistencies in postings, where, for example, someone claims to be totally innocent of any wrongdoing, but their posting history shows that may not be the case.

I am sure GNHQ will correct me if I am wrong, but I can't see any rule that says titling your thread "support" gives it any special status and prevents any other point of view being heard. Of course, if you join a specific support group to make contact with others who share a common problem, that is a totally different situation to posting on an open internet site.

Thanks "Notanan* that helps. Can you see though why I get upset about MN advice never to open e-mail from their parents -block their numbers etc. I can only understand that if someone is being bombarded with unwanted contact.

I won't be sending anything though -I'll be waiting to see if my family come to me. If they don't and they are having a happy life I will work on having a happy life myself

If they do I would welcome them back without hesitation. I would either act as if nothing had happened or listen to their concerns as they wished.

I am still very upset about the estrangement and I've reflected at length about where I have gone wrong. The problem is my AC has instructed me not to contact and therefore I have no way of trying to put things right, listen to them or ask for a relationship on their terms

Y'know sometimes doing nothing is doing something
It depends on how you think about it, it might feel like you're "doing nothing", but I don't see it that way, you've listened to your ACs needs and have respected them. I think that counts for something. It at least doesn't burn any bridges. There's a lot of burning of bridges going on on here, I read a lot of the GN stories and just feel like, despite saying they'ld welcome their AC back, the actions they describe I feel make that impossible.

Death by a thousand paper cuts has been mentioned by someone on the other GN thread about this. And it can be just that, it can just be exhaustion from trying and trying and the ACs just need some peace and rest from it. If you don't relent they'll never get that respite and there'll be no window for healing.

willsmadnan... how can the so called 'invaders' ( your words) comments be sensible when the non- estranged members are commenting on something they know nothing about or have experienced !

we the estranged grandparents are working through our estrangement as best as we can in our own way and if we want to discuss it on an open forum thats our perogative!

if as you say this being an 'exclusive ' (your words) thread why dont you MOVE ON!

Marg59 I am so glad to see your post and I identify with it so much.

People can make terrible mistakes when their adult children first cut them off but putting things in a newspaper or criticising the AC on-line is only going to make things worse. I think its driven from pain and its hard to stop and think about the long term effects.

I am still very upset about the estrangement and I've reflected at length about where I have gone wrong. The problem is my AC has instructed me not to contact and therefore I have no way of trying to put things right, listen to them or ask for a relationship on their terms.

I hope that the cross-over people from MN will see all posts and recognise that we don't all want to retain control.

I need support but having read this I'm not sure Gransnet or Mumsnet is the right place (and yes Grans are still Mums and have that choice).

I understand the "damned if you do and damned if you don't". I have seen this advice on MN..

"When you go NC some parents accept it-they never cared in the first place, others, however, hoover"

I have tried to put myself in the AC's shoes and gone for acceptance. I care very much though.

I have found both threads upsetting to read.

We are human being with feelings, having given birth and devoted our lives to our ed it is as rhinestone correctly puts a question of respect surely ?

My children don't owe me anything for being raised, raising them is what I'm supposed to do, I chose to have children, they're a captive audience to their upbringing. When they are adults I won't expect their respect by defualt of having given birth, which lets face it, a rat can do! I will endeavor to continue to earn their respect throughout their lives. My mother started out with my respect, she continuously eroded it.

I am only too glad that is supported my dear mum r..I.p. Throughout her cancer battle I would not want anything to sadden memories of her likewise my beloved f I law. However I could have found it too distressing and gone no contact ?
Show us a single example of a AC going NC on here or MN because it got hard seeing them go through illness. It's a rediculous comparison, and many of us AC who went NC have seen other people we care about through the hardest of times and never left their side.

Jenty ...please! When will it actually get through that the "invaders"on this exclusive members-only thread are not all engaging in pointless arguments. Draw breath and think about it. The majority of the advice is sensible.... stop sending beseeching emails, stop opening your hearts on public forums, and FOR GOD'S SAKE.... MOVE ON.

Jenty 61 excellent you seem to have enormous understanding well done ??

Just strolling I do feel concerned by your tone of aggression towards estranged parents.

We are human being with feelings, having given birth and devoted our lives to our ed it is as rhinestone correctly puts a question of respect surely ?

If estranged children WAnt no con fact that is their perogsrive but it is rather one sided to insinuate that parents can be discarded with no regard to the enormous hurt and betrayal it engenders. It implies an enormous sense of entitlement on behalf of the child.

I am only too glad that is supported my dear mum r..I.p. Throughout her cancer battle I would not want anything to sadden memories of her likewise my beloved f I law.

However I could have found it too distressing and gone no contact ?, it is not something I could have ever even Thought of however a new breed of offspring seem perfectly ok with that use their parents then discard them? How very very sad.

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Marg59 - (((HUGS)))

So sorry for all you've been through. But clearly, you've gained much wisdom. Hope the GC do seek you out someday. I'm sure you'll develop a beautiful relationship with them if they do.

Rhinestone, just curious, does your state say GPs have a "right" to see their GC under the circumstances you describe or a "right to seek visitation" through the courts? Cuz, as far as I know, every court in the States that deals with these cases will hear out the parents' arguments, as well as the GPs. And parents often win, even if the GPs meet criteria set up by the state. Of course, GPs who meet the criteria have a better chance than those who don't. But I've never heard of any GP in any state being automatically given visitation, no matter what the situation. But I realize there could be one or two states that do that.

This may sum up something of the jist of that post from jsb
My mother was very possessive and she was staying with us. My D was in her 20's and my M told her what to do. Not a suggestion ,an order. I said she should not talk to her that way and D would make up her own mind she was a grown woman. My M's reply was I will speak to her any way I like regardless of how old she is. She felt it was her right.

Two very understanding posts

I think Rhinestone your post sums up everything about these AC estrangements and why they happen.

You don't get to decide if an estrangement is warranted, your child does.

You don't get to decide whether what you did was 'real abuse', they do.

You don't own your grandchildren. They are your child's children and as such your children have full rights and responsibilities over them. You have none. So yes, they absolutely have the right to take their children out of your lives.

If a conversation could have stopped the estrangement, there would be no estrangement. You aren't actually talking about having a conversation, you're talking about how you would tell your child she's got it all wrong, she would accept it and everything's ok again. Except it isn't ok for her, but you don't want to hear that.

As for the last bit, quit whining, quit blaming your parents for how you turned out, take responsibility for your actions, show some respect. Why do you expect your AC to do all these things that YOU ARENT DOING?

I would not be thankful to have a parent who thought like this. I don't think someone who could think like this about me would enrich my children's lives.

I would walk further away from you if I read that. I'm no longer a child, so to talk like that to me is not appropriate anymore.

This is about power. When you lived with your children, you were in charge. Now they have their families, of which they are in charge. The power base has moved down a generation, as it has to. You are not in charge of your AC and your GC. So if you want a relationship with them you have to treat them as valid adult humans in their own right.

As for why people post, you all sound so unhappy, and angry, and lost. And in so much pain. And from a distance the dynamics are so clear. You don't want to let go of the power you had as a parent of children. That is what you are all fighting within yourselves over, that loss of power. So it's actually easily solved, if you could only hear what so many are trying to say.

That is why I'm reaching out, anyway. Because you sound so unhappy.

Sorry about whole extract....ignore first half.

This post is written with respect to both sides of the coin, the estranged and the estrangers / those cut off and those who have decided to cut off.

Our daughter cut us off some ten years ago now and there are two grandchildren who we have never met.

I just wanted to share that at first, for maybe four years or more I was so desperately sad, suicidal, riddled with anxieties, what had i done ? why ? If only she would talk with me and her father ? if only she would go to counselling with us ?

With hindsight the biggest mistake I made in my grief, I realise now, was to bombard her with what I now perceive as begging letters, texts, emails - I wish I had backed off, given her space and know that had I done so, had I given her space in those early days, we'd have been back in a relationship long since. At the time I didn't realise these were doing more harm than good.

Another thing which doesn't help is the emailing and texting, it has taken away the old style way of sorting things out face to face, we use our gadgets now and sometimes what we write in an email or text is taken the wrong way by the recipient.

For me, after the initial emotions of shock, sadness, grief at the loss of a relationship and yes, anger too - how could she - had worn off I began to look at the bigger picture and just let her go, accepting that there was nothing more I could do to make amends, she is a grown adult, has made her own choices, she knows I love her so leave her be live her life. Who knows, one day she might want to build bridges with me and her father, if so, she knows where to find us.

The grandchildren, they don't know me so wont be missing what they never had in the first place. Of course I would have loved a relationship with them but this is their mother's choice not mine. If they turn up in the future I most certainly wont be saying anything negative about their mother to them, not at all, surely that would only serve to continue the cycle, take cutting off down into the next generation if I encourage them to cut off from their mother, why would I want to do that ?

Another thing I would never do is name and shame my daughter on public forums such as this, surely if I did, and she read it that would only serve to exacerbate the situation ?

I know both sides of the coin are hurting, but there comes a time you have to reinvent your own life, a life with those friends and family who want you to be in their lives and let those who have cut you off fly free - they might fly back into the nest one day, they might not.

I love the Frozen song "Let it go" (sorry if you are all going to be humming that song all day now).

I believe we only come this way once so live it to the full whilst you can because you are a long time dead.

Oxford Dictionaries


British & World Englishtroll
There are 2 main definitions of troll in English:troll1 troll2
troll 1
Pronunciation: /trɒl/ /trəʊl/
NOUN

(In folklore) an ugly cave-dwelling creature depicted as either a giant or a dwarf.
Example sentences
Origin

Early 17th century: from Old Norse and Swedish troll, Danish trold. The first English use is from Shetland; the term was adopted more widely into English in the mid 19th century.

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Words that rhyme with troll

boll, Chabrol, Coll, doll, Guignol, haute école, loll, moll, pol, poll, skol, sol, vol barcarole, bole, bowl, cajole, coal, Cole, condole, console, control, dhole, dole, droll, enrol (US enroll), extol, foal, goal, hole, Joel, knoll, kohl, mol, mole, Nicole, parol, parole, patrol, pole, poll, prole, rôle, roll, scroll, Seoul, shoal, skoal, sole, soul, stole, stroll, thole, Tirol, toad-in-the-hole, toll, vole, whole
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There are 2 main definitions of troll in English:troll1 troll2
troll 2
Pronunciation: /trɒl/ /trəʊl/
NOUN

1A person who makes a deliberately offensive or provocative online post:
one solution is to make a troll’s postings invisible to the rest of community once they’ve been recognized
More example sentences
1.1A deliberately offensive or provocative online post.
Example sentences
2A line or bait used in trolling for fish.
Example sentences
VERB

Dictionary definition of trolling.

"Make a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them"

Nobody has been deliberately offensive or provocative or wishes to upset anyone - ergo, they are not trolling.

We post because we ARE a step removed and can actually see through the trees to the wood.

Meant lose not loose

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