Support for family members cut out of loved ones lives 5

I don't expect my EC to stop blaming and show respect because then we wouldn't have an estrangement would we if they HAD done that. But yes there is no respect given to parents nowadays. How about manners? Where have they gone? Why do these kids have a sense of entitlement? Why do they expect the GP to babysit? They sure expect a lot but give little.

What? "these kids".. c'mon lets just not do the "our generation Vs theirs" nonsense, it just cheapens any debate.

For a start, not all GPs are of the same generation. Some grandparents on here are in their 40s, some are in their 80s. Totally different generations. Lets not all lump everyone in together

Secondly, not all AC are "kids" to be dismissed as "disrepectful youth" (in fact, I don't agree with anyone, however young, being dismissed and silenced this way.. but that's another point), I am old enough to be a GP, many of my old school mates are GPs, I just lived my life the other way round to some others which is why I'm not a GP yet. I could well be of the same generation as some of you GPs on here.

Notanan, my reference to the article was much wider, I posted an excerpt, which acknowledges a lack of regard for parents across the board noting and pointing out that it appears to have some relevance to the governments introduction of children's rights. This has been in the news recently especially now we're seeing generations from 1989, when the act was brought in. Basically, it reversed the power dynamics by changing the roles, not just of parents but teachers too, so that the child had the power to report a parent or teacher. When it backfired in the classroom and teachers couldn't teach, the power balance was changed. But parents have long been subservient to their children. No change was applied. Hence we now have a lot of adult children talking down to their parents and even resorting to manipulation and bullying. This is now what's being recognised by psychologists. Plus parents are beginning to speak up and end their shame and silence on such matters.

WendySuecan you private message me?

Elder abuse is (and always was ) a problem, in fact probably less so now due to the transparency and universal rights you seem so opposed to

However, in order for an abuser to abuse, they need contact with the victim. An abusive EC will place themselves in a position to be abusive, that means contact! in most cases of elder abuse, a lot of contact, often moving in with them and taking over their fincances etc.

Again, the opposite of walking away thus reducing the scope for abuse

EC, should have been AC

Rhinestone, you're right. I work with women, many of them are retired. They say the same thing and I know of cases where they have been estranged because they refused to babysit. One such person said to me a while ago, she imagined her retirement to be different. She didn't think she would end up being an unpaid childminder. Yet she knew if she refused, her daughter would stop speaking to her. This is a common story, I hear it all the time. If there is a conflict, the AC simply stays away until the parent accepts the blame and they submit to being back under control.

Notanan, I'm not opposed to any kind of rights. I also didn't write the article. I have researched the problem for several years though and parent abuse is now recognised as on the increase hence why the experts are drawing attention to it.

Jenty61 best ignored as i said earlier like annoying itch leave it alone and it goes??
Meaning the invaders their term??

Back to garden now how can anyone can be indulging in pointless rubbish while sun is shining ??

Thank you Nina- we were those unpaid childcare workers. We saw our GC every week for three years. .We did all the work picking up and dropping off. When my ESS had ten weeks off every summer they never came to visit. We would never see our GC unless we babysat. And they have the nerve to cut us off without a word?

Well well Notanan. We use the word kids here in the states no matter what their age so I am not talking about different generstions. And since when does an age determine respect? There comes a time in life when you have to make peace with the fact that your parents did the best they could. It's time for some of the EC to grow up and stop feeling that this world owes them anything. I never said All kids.

I know Rhinestone, I know. I've run support groups, written articles, researched the topic and as I said, I work with women so I get the stories first hand. It's very sad and it's not the parents who are to blame. I do think it's very important to your own survival of such unfair treatment that you draw a line under what's happened and start creating a life around yourself. It does hurt to be cast aside in such a way, I do agree and I know many who would also agree. But you still have to make your own life a priority.

And while I'm on here I just might add this question to our new posters here. When is estrangement justified? Is it justified because because your parents made a mistake with you twenty years ago and did something that made you mad? Is it justified to beak ties with your parents because you have a bug up your butt and don't want to have a conversation with them about it? When is it justified?

I agree totally that anyone has the right to comment on this - or any thread. I too have read things which have sat uncomfortably, regarding possible future reconciliation. However, I find it best to accept that some people have honed their beliefs to such an extent, that any comment will be viewed as criticism.

What I have found absolutely unacceptable has been the way that posters here on GN have been labelled, by those on MN...crazy, unhinged, and much much more. No one has the right to make such judgments about compete strangers on the internet, based solely on their own personal experience. Those they are slating may well be narcissists, sociopaths, or very disturbed people. On the other hand they may be none of those things, may well be victims themselves. They do not know, and should never have made their comments personal to the GN posters. That is how this all started, with the initial thread on MN. If, as they claim, their actions have brought them peace, why do they feel the need to constantly regurgitate their pain....and worse, inflict it on others whist knowing nothing definite about those others lives?

I know of cases where they have been estranged because they refused to babysit

This sounds incredibly odd. There can't be many cases where the problem was that cut-and-dried.

However many there may be, I hope those same grandmothers aren't complaining about lack of contact with their grandchildren! Their issue seems to have been too much contact.

Nina, the article & quote you hoisted as evidence actually says the problem is the way in which government policy has increasingly framed the parent–child relationship in adversarial terms.
Something you and most of the thread regulars are keen to perpetuate.

willsmadnan your private message to me is in the trash where it belongs!

celebgran ty its a beautiful afternoon sitting in the sunshine..

Rhinestone, I can fully understand why some AC have had no choice but to estrange from their parents. In cases where there has been abuse, cruelty and neglect, they don't have much choice. And it doesn't necessarily improve anything for the AC because having no family leaves them vulnerable and struggling too.
But in cases where the AC are just plain unrealistic with their expectations and they have an inflated sense of being entitled, then it's a different story because it becomes a master and slave relationship with the theme being 'submit to my demands or I'll punish you with silence'.

It doesn't always go as planned though. Many of the parents I know have got past their grieving and rebuilt their lives without their AC being part. They've formed new bonds and healthier relationships and in some ways, they've discovered a new freedom. If and when their AC return, the relationship has changed dramatically. The parents have woken up, are far wiser, less trusting and they give their AC a much wider berth just in case they get cut off again. They keep their door ajar and their hearts open. But there's no doubt that being cut off has changed the relationship. That's why it's so important to talk to family members, where it's possible, rather than just end all contact. The silence doesn't kill the love, but it does change the bond.

Correct GarlicCake.

Absolutely true Nina. Like I've said in my past posts unless there is moleststion and/ or abuse there is no reason to estrange except for their own inflated entitled egos as you say. Here's some for you. Have a good day all.

Rosyglow, I too saw parents on MN 'diagnosed' with all forms of labels and mental issues by the members. Unfortunately, new psychology and it's terminology, while helpful to some, is a method now being used and applied as a tactic to discredit both AC and parents too. By both sides I must admit. Unless qualified though, no one can diagnose another person and if they do, in writing on a public forum, it can be seen as slander if that person can be identified. It always pays to post discreetly.

I've been following the thread on MN too, and want to write "so what will your children say about you? A woman full of hate, and desire for revenge?"
But I'm staying out of it , hoping the trend starts to reverse.

TriciaF, I can't understand the anger, hostility and venom on MN. If people choose to go NC, then why write such damning posts? Where does the anger stop and the healing begin? I understand the need to let off steam and vent sometimes but I can't understand the vitriol that gets posted.

No opinion except their own will ever be accepted on this thread, as I said we are hearing only 1 side of every story concernjng estrangement. Can everyone hand on heart honestly say they haven't an inkling what went wrong. Sorry I find that hard to believe, something must have occurred that started this downward spiral. I reiterate it is a very sad situation to find yourselves in but as others have posted been vengeful,saying unkind things about those involved is never going to help the situation. And don't assume people don't know about estrangement even if there are no grandchildren involved, that is very presumptuous. Posters regular say their moving on, how are you ? When you kerp dredging up the past, thats not progress that's wallowing.

Firstly, gosh! pitfalls of grandparent babysitters is a WHOLE thread in itself!

There is SOOO many variables to the back story, that just to say "cut off over babysitting" is too much of a tip of an ice berg to derive a right and wrong from

I have friends who work full time and childmind their GCs on their days off and I think, my god! they have NO time off yet their AC are getting all this "me time" while the baby is at nannies!! But my friends say they're happy to do it and wouldn't have it any other way so I don't say anything, but inside I'm thinking that the ACs in those cases are taking the piss with all the babysitting.. maybe I shouldn't judge, but we all do a little don't we?

On the other hand, I have parent friends whose Mother/MIL was upset that they were considering nursery/childminder and insisted they were happy to do the childcare, only to repeatedly cancel at short notice leaving my friends in both a difficult position with work, but also accused of taking the mother/MIL for granted by being upset about last minute avoidable cancellations.. you can see the other side of the narrative "oh! she's in a huff with my because I didn't babysit last week".. when the parents side is the GP agreed to it, then backed out when it was too late to make other arrangements.

Other friends are bullied into letting their babies go for sleepovers at nannies house when they're still very young and the mother isn't really ready for the baby being away over night.. and yet they are expected to be endebted to the bullying mother/MIL for giving them "a break" that they neither wanted or needed or asked for.

And yes, there are mothers who get in a huff if they can't go socialising every weekend with free babysitters. Try posting as one on MN and see how you get on though

Also there may be AC who don't want a relationship with their parents, but who don't see them as a danger to their own children, so might decide that the best thing is for the children to go to the grandparent's house without them so that the children's relationship with the GPs isn't affected by the tensions between GPs and ACs. The "other side" narrative to this might be "we never hear from her unless she wants something from us like babysitting"

And there'll be a thousand other pitfalls that could result in the nut-shell version of events being "they NC because I didn't babysit"

Usually it's more a case of straws that break a camels back I think.

I've been following the thread on MN too, and want to write "so what will your children say about you? A woman full of hate, and desire for revenge?"
If I was out for revenge I'ld be in contact with the person I wanted that from. I don't want anythning from her, that's the point.
I'm not posting identifyable details on blogs or newspapers for the kids to read, I'm keeping them out of it and letting it out in appropriate settings such as anonomous discussion forums about the topic. They don't need to see any of the nonsense, that's the point of going NC. They don't need to hear what I think of what's gone on. I'm not interested in using them as soundboards for "my side of the story" or anything like that. If I was, I might as well re-introduce them to the car-crash that is being in a relationship with their grandmother!

The "because I wouldn't babysit" is as flawed as the baby equipment thing that's been discussed earlier.

A cot can cause a problem, but the problem won't really be about the cot will it?
"I've bought a new cot so the baby can stay over ever weekend for a sleepover with nanny".. when the baby is 2 weeks old and the GPs have not been asked to do overnight babysitting, is going to be problematic!
"Diane next door was getting rid of her old cot so I thought it'ld be handy incase LO naps while here or if there's even an emergency and you need to stay".. less likely to be a problem.

But again, the "cot thing" is more likely to be the straw that broke a camels back than the real problem in itself. Same as a row over babysitting.