Support for family members cut out of loved ones lives 5

GarlicCake, please....people started off being patient with me??? I was on the thread for less than 3 hours.

Notanan and GarlicCake, it wasn't that I couldn't be bothered to read your stories. There were over 700 posts. I didn't have that much time. Plus we all have our own stories, you're not unique. Sorry if that's a harsh reality but none of us are. I've had a difficult childhood, my mother rejected me but I can't define myself by allowing her rejection to make me hostile and bitter. My concern is that our AC are cutting their parents off because of bad advice from others and because it's a current trend. All the advice on the internet is to look after number 1. Really? All that's going to happen is that you're going to end up alone with a cellphone. My daughter has cut me off but I'm not worried for me. I'm worried for her. Relationships these days have no structure because they don't exist. They're built in cyberspace. They're not real. If you're in a crisis, how many FB friends are going to appear on your doorstep? Yet if you've trashed your relationship with your mum, even if she is a pain, who are you going to call? Who are you going to leave your child with? Who can you trust more than your mum even if she is your worst nightmare? Answer? No one because you won't have anyone. It's different if your parents were cruel and unloving. But if you have a mum that loves you, you don't delete her or cut her off just because you can't get past a rift.

People started off being patient with you, Nina! It was so clear that you perceived anything other than fawning agreement as hostile, we gave up pretty quickly - being very familiar with that pattern and all.

I'm curious to know whether you've read the Issendai blog that prompted the MN thread? What did you think?

If you've both gone NC, forgive my curiosity, but why?
Seriously Nina? you were invited to read posters back stories on MN, but you couldn't be bothered to, remember?

I'm not NC. My intensely abusive father sorted that out by getting killed in an accident. Following a series of difficult talks with my now very elderly mother, I am in regular contact but the relationship has changed to a more superficial one. Similar deal with my siblings - we've all handled the aftermath of our childhoods in different ways.

Within minutes of posting I was under attack
and do you remember what it was you posted that upset so many people?
probably not, it wouldn't fit into your narrative of AC getting upset over nothing.

So Notanan and GarlicCake, you're both members of NM's active on the thread that copies posts from parents but you're on here too? If you've both gone NC, forgive my curiosity, but why?

Ah. No, thanks, Nina. I asked you last night if it was about family estrangement, and must have misunderstood your reply. Cheers for the correction.

GarlicCake, sorry but A Devious Truth is a novel about a women who excels in business. Would you like me to send you the synopsis? Happy to.

The difference is Notanan, that I have only been active on two forums with a related thread for a total of 24 hours. I'm not a regular forum visitor. But I am a researcher and someone highlighted the post as nasty on NM'S yesterday so I signed up and took a look. Within minutes of posting I was under attack. The comments were angry, vicious, hostile and judgmental. The ability to communicate in a civil manner just wasn't there and I left this morning.

Background for general info: nina59's researching her next novel, "A Devious Truth" which has a theme of parental estrangement. She tells us she is estranged from her own mother and daughter.

Sorry if I've cross-posted with you, Nina.

So Nina, tell us how you have moved on from your estrangement so much that you don't find yourself on threads about estrangement making sweeping generalisations about the other side so we can all learn from your example!… oh wait….!

You've been on both of the threads in question too Nina, so you are as moved on or not as the rest of us posting here. It is possible to talk about what happened as part of moving on. STFU and suck it up is what we had to do before NC, and we don't have to any more.

Let me go one step further Notanan. To be honest what I've found in 5 years of research is that despite going NC, the AC can't let go. The estranged parents have no choice. Life forces them to survive the emotional wilderness of being cast out of their tribe whatever their offence or perceived lack may be. But the NC stages a mission to persecute the estranged parent almost in a mercenary way if they dare appear to be resurrecting their life after divorce from their AC. I'm sorry but it's a trait that appears common in much the same way as jealous spouse that's ended a relationship yet can't bear to see the rejected party move on. Most parents grieve them come to terms with their situation only to find they are being lambasted on a forum elsewhere for all their shortcomings. Why? If the AC are happy being NC, why?

You've lost me Notanan. Sorry. I was very restrained in my posts in the short time I posted on Nms. I was accused of being vague which I agree I was out of choice. I'm not sure what you mean by a U turn. My stance is clear. If you can't resolve things, and I urged people to try, then move on and let everyone get on with their lives. I didn't see much evidence of this on the thread on Nm's yesterday despite members going NC.

five minutes ago is a figure of speech Nina, as in, really very recently before your u-turn here on people leaving other people to their peer support

Notanan, I'm sorry but I deregistered on Nms early this morning so I couldn't have posted anything since. I only joined yesterday and left less than 12 hours later so you must have got your wires crossed somewhere.

I really like the political discussions here, notanan There's certainly enough thoughtful & interesting stuff here to keep me active - though sporadically, as it's quiet compared to Mumsnet. (All the EGPs heave a sigh of relief!)

Some situations, unfortunately, appear beyond repair. In those cases, I think all we can give the poster is a shoulder to cry on and so forth.

I 80% agree with this. The other 20% is the part where you try to get the grieving person to take a step back from their anguish and maybe even see there are other ways to look at things. Because we've all been lost in misery at some points, and we know it feels better when you can work your way out of the epicentre.

As you imply, though, some folks in a hole won't or can't climb out - they prefer planting a nice garden down there. OK. I can admire their subterranean garden! When they start blaming everyone else for their position, I might say "Hold up a minute ...!"

that's in interesting stance from you Nina, given what you posted on MN to AC who have gone NC what? five minutes ago?

Now everyone should be left alone to offer peer support… after all you said on MN about AC?

I think the war drags on because nothing is resolved to the satisfaction of the party that wants a resolution. This can be either side and what I've recorded is that the estranged parents stay silent (out of shame mostly) while the estranger, (the AC)carries on the grievance elsewhere. In this case, NMs. I'm sorry it this doesn't sit well but I'm a researcher and this is what I've observed. If you've cut someone off because you don't want them in your life, stop slating them off on a public forum. End your connection, move on with your life and let them move on with theirs. In theory, this should happen. But it doesn't. A point scoring exercise begins against the bereft parent who posts their confusion innocently on a group thinking their comments are private. But then the estrangers join the group to see what's being said often under an alias. Why? Under any other definition this would be stalking. You've left the building. Aren't people allowed to grieve and share on their own support group without being spied upon or their comments copied and shared elsewhere without them knowing? And no, you don't have the right to share someone else's intellectual copyright without their permission. There are international privacy laws that have measures in place to deal with this kind of issue. So my point is, if you have cut off your parents, regardless of the reason, and if you can't communicate your reasons why, let them have their time to grieve your loss in the way that they see fit without their words being copied, shared, dissected and mocked. They are still people with feelings, as are we all. They will get over you. But just as you need to vent and rant and air your views on your chosen support group, so do they. We are all human beings.

MN posters were slagged off on here long before the thread on MN was even started, if we're going to get technical over who was criticising which other forum first.

MN isn't some sort of bad DIL bootcamp any more than all of gransnet is destined for estrangement. There's a cross over because the type of behaviour that is being discussed as causing the estrangemen on that MN thread is being demonstrated on here on this one thread, not all of gransnet. It's a nice forum generally. I've also been reading some of the political discussion threads with interest.

Garlic, I'm sorry, but the 2nd post on that MN thread brought up one of the EP threads here on GN. The OP may not have been about that, but it was brought into it, right away. I can't blame some GNers for talking about it here, anymore than I can blame MNers for responding to what was said. But all that was originally in a different thread here, entirely, (the "Nasty thread..." conversation). Yet, somehow, it ended up spilling over into this one.

Personally, people, I understand that in a public forum, no one can set the exact boundaries to a thread that they may want. And the word "support" can't insure that every post will be comforting or encouraging. But I like to respect the OP's intention. IRL I observe my DDs' (and other people's) boundaries. And in these forums, I try to stay within the boundaries an OP seems to be trying to set, as much as possible. But that's just me. I realize it's not a "blueprint" or "formula" for anyone else.

That being said, I think some of the points MNers have made are very valid. But often, IMO, they have more meaning for those who are in the early stages of estrangement or fear they're on the verge. Some situations, unfortunately, appear beyond repair. In those cases, I think all we can give the poster is a shoulder to cry on and so forth. Yes, I agree that public notices are NOT a good idea and may have even prolonged an estrangement. But I get why some GPs feel that need to reach out, and anyhow, in some cases, it may be too late to fix.

Also, I agree that such EGPs need to move on with their lives and some of them are trying to do so. But while I can't imagine their pain, I know they still feel it at some level. No reason, IMO, they shouldn't have a place to spill their guts, just as people do on MN and elsewhere. True, GPs don't alwahys like what they read when younger parents vent and vice versa. But that's the chance we take when we read posts from the "other side" of an issue.

Actually-in fairness- the MN thread started in response to something that had been written on a forum for estranged parents.
Gransnet was not mentioned until the second page when some MN posters started to say that they had been reading on here .

Some gransnet posters got defensive about it but they did not assume without evidence that they were being discussed on MN. Go back and look at page 2 of the MN thread.

should never have made their comments personal to the GN posters. That is how this all started, with the initial thread on MN.

This feels a little like nitpicking, Rosyglow, with so many words already typed - but the MN thread was not about Gransnetters. GN wasn't even on the radar until some of this thread's members saw the MN post and decided it was all about them ... then proceeded to exchange very unpleasant views on the Mumsnetters. This naturally provoked a reaction.

I mention it again because it's a startling example of:
• People assuming other people are talking about them, when they aren't
• The same people persisting in their sense of victimisation even after the facts have been clarified
• Their reacting to this imagined victimisation with fury (and personalised insults)
• The problem escalating.

Looking at it one way, the Mumsnetters could have maintained a dignified silence in the face of this injustice. Unfortunately, the MN thread was specifically started to discuss some estranged parents' misconceptions regarding the relationship - so the above sequence of events was a living example of the topic in hand.

All rather sad. But instructive, for some.

The posts implying that blame always lies with the AC make me feel uncomfortable just as much as the parent-blaming on MN. Each situation is unique. Generalising can be very hurtful to people who are in upsetting and complicated situations.