should the children be more important than the relationship

SJP yes

gillybob I wasn't young when I had the DC but with a husband away in the RN, a mother who was an invalid and a MIL who worked full-time and had her own elderly DM and DC to care for, I never got a day or night off either.

I never thought of 'nurturing our relationship', we just got on with it!
But I do look after the DGC.

Odd, though, that despite all this 'nurturing' more marriages break up these days than did in our younger days.

DH has just returned from visiting friends. They are utterly exhausted, they are 83 and 81 and he has very poor health. They were looking after 2 year old DGGC yesterday for 10 hours.
Some of the younger generation are utterly selfish imo

Or perhaps that is what is termed 'working for your pension' (see other thread).

But Jaima, couldn't these GGPs have said no to looking after their DGGC? Or put a limit on the number of hours? And where were the GPs?

The young people may not be so much selfish as unthinking, not realising the strain elderly people would feel in looking after youngsters.
The GGPs probably don't like to say no, but they should do so if they can't cope.

I don't know if the granny and mother had gone somewhere together or were working, (don't know them that well, he is a friend of DH) Wendysue; no, great-granny wouldn't refuse anything. She was travelling on two buses to help look after her own mother until she was well into her 70s (mother was in her late 90s!).
Perhaps that is what keeps her going despite the exhaustion.

with reference to Luckygirls remarks, what I said is not a wind up, I did consider having a man around when I was ill, it would have been handy but I changed my mind but is that not so different to a single parent having a boyfriend around to do jobs and provide money when the children are small ?
I repeat that I really did say to DH that he would have to take second place and I also said I should take second place to our child in the same way. You become parents after a child is born and that's a different role compared to being a couple. Children really do come first. Ive no patience with jealous men they should grow up.

Ethel1. I find it hard to reconcile your work as a Reiki healer and your very jaundersed view of mankind.

I feel sorry for the child in the set up where the father is just thought a nuisance and never gets treated as an equal. I think that very often it strengthens the father/child relationship as the child gets older - I
imagine them both rolling their eyes when the mother gets on her hobby horse. (And resolving to do things differently when they are a parent).

I am most definately a reiki healer, I also know that I have had a lovely husband but he died and to be quite honest I couldnt face anyone else dying on me . Thats the main reason I didnt remarry, Imay have held different views otherwise.

How come you're allowed to have two usernames, ethel?

ana I want to have just one name but I keep forgetting password and logged back in to the reiki lady one so I think I must just stay on this one. Im not keeping it secret you make it sound as if I have got a privelidge.

Anyone can have two usernames if they sign up using two separate email addresses.

I agree with you, Ethel that the parents should put the child(ren) first. That's not quite how it came across originally, though.

I can remember "wise" advice being given to new mums to remember not to let their husband feel left out after the baby's arrival, as if he is some sort of toddler who has to be pandered to.

glad someone agrees with me. .

I don't think it is a question of having a husband as a toddler, it seems to be forgetting that you are having a baby together as equal parents. I get amazed at how the woman then becomes the 'expert' and has to be the one to tell him what to do! It is his child and he is just as capable, apart from breast feeding, and you can leave him to care for his child. I think that many women would feel very patronised if their DH never let them be alone with the baby, told them exactly what they had to do, what the baby had to wear etc and yet the man is expected to put up with it.
Of course a mature couple put their child first, it is automatic, but they don't have to have a pecking order and they are sensible enough to spend some time as a couple, rather than always being parents, and they do realise that other people can manage to babysit and this is good for the child to have loving relationships with others.
If the child has emotionally mature parents they are more likely to grow up secure than having parents who think you can measure love, have a pecking order and try and freeze other people out. Maybe it comes from insecurity.