What's happening to young mums?

So many heartbreaking stories here! And who pays the highest price? The poor kids!

I agree some dads can be vindictive and controlling, too. And some non-custodial parents (usually but not always dads) claim that the custodial parent is "keeping kids away" from them, but, in truth, don't show up for most visits and so forth. All kinds of games are possible.

Nina, your DD's X can threaten all he wants about trading visits for child support - I doubt the court will allow it. I don't know how it's done in the UK, of course. Where I live in the States, visitation and CS are handled separately. Perhaps it's the same where you are?

Crafty, that idea sounds complicated but good!

Tricia, your ex-neighbors' situation sounds awful! But if "she managed to get him a criminal conviction," maybe there are things you don't know?

Grandma, all the best to you and yours!

Maybe Mumsnet should be deleted,some of the people on there are not "Of good character " .

My own daughter was trying to get pregnant with her boyfriend within 3 months of going out together. I didn't bring her up to be like that. What on earth? He was at university at the time and had to give up his course. Then, when he had got on his feet and started another course, she got herself pregnant again. And I say she did get herself pregnant because she was doing ovulation tests, I suspect without him knowing if he was trying to get qualified and had given one course up. So, yes, they can be manipulating, she proves it, I am ashamed to say.

Goodness only knows how these how the young children of today will grow up to be like. The whole system of parenting before security is upside down, imo.

Just following on from Jinglebells maybe mumsnet should be called parentsnet just like GN is for both sexes? Just a thought.

It is a very one-sided view to say that there is something wrong with young mums. There are plenty of manipulative and irresponsible young dads too.

My own experience of working in the matrimonial department of a solicitors some years ago is that many men behave appallingly to their wives/partners, often leaving them and their children almost destitute.

It's a product of the modern society,where anything goes,yes you can have it all,no don't blame yourself,Some poor kids don't know wether their coming or going.The young man next door to me(very very nice) but he's got three kids,three different women,didn't marry any of them.According to his mother,it's the women's fault.But the kids are a mess emotionally.The girls in my great nephews class,although you would think she was in her twenties.Too much of it.They move in together,have a baby,poor kids.
AND I'm only talking of the few,thankfully the majority are still responsible.
The problem is the young people think this is normal.Well maybe sadly it is.

Thank you all for your comments and support. As I suspected it does seem to be quite common and I agree that it could be as a result of more partners with children outside marriage (although not exclusively as I know from other family members). Also one of our family has had her children alienated by their father so I know it is not just women.

I also agree that technology does not help the situation. I have always advised my sons not to communicate through text, phone or social media any matters of importance or emotion. I have seen some of what this particular partner has written and it is appalling. Shame does not seem to come into it and in fact she has said she is proud of what she is saying. Even her 8 year old son has told me 'Mummy writes naughty words about Daddy on her phone'.

annsixty - I sympathise as this is exactly what it is like for us. DS is accused of bullying and refused access until she wants something and then he is expected to do it eg take her and the children for a day out/ to the cinema etc as she does not drive - take his holiday at the same time as hers so she can go abroad while he looks after the children. It feels like the whole family is being held ransom by her. My other DS has put charges of assault, criminal damage and libel (by her) on hold because she may ban the children from seeing us because of it. Courts move very slowly!

I am interested to hear 'bi-polar' mentioned. This seems to be a common diagnosis among partners of DS's friends. Surely this cannot be an excuse for treating ex partners and particularly the children in this manipulative way.

Sluttygran you are so right - it is child abuse and there is nothing the courts can or will do if that parent will not comply with an order.

kittylester - she refuses mediation and has said she wants DS to pay (both financially and mentally!)

nanaGill and TriciaF I wish all parents were as selfless as you. It would be so much better for the children.

It isn't just young mothers is it, many fathers also make unreasonable demands, bully, cajole and use the children as pawns in the game of separation. I find it hard not to mention programmes like the Jeremy Kyle show or those awful benefit porn type tv shows. So many people, with a sense of entitlement and a view that the louder you shout, cry and cause offence,somehow, the more justified your position becomes. Nope, it doesn't. I can't think of another way to express this than as "high expressed emotion' - there was some research a few years ago that concluded that living in an atmosphere of high expressed emotion was very damaging to children. Yes, obvious isn't it yet so many adults see it as their right.

It's all about punishment isn't it? Often grandparents pay the price as well.

D, H and I are always careful what we say in front of the children. Unfortunately they live with other GP's who are happy to slag off D to their son in front of them.
D doesn't show emotion usually but she was shaking and teary this morning due to the texts he was sending her

Same with me, nanaGill. Until eldest daughter was 20ish, she asked me outright about it, and I told her a little bit.
So what has changed? As others have said, partly the growth of social media, and partly the rampant materialism that exists now. A good example being our ex-neighbours, she managed to get him a criminal conviction. The poor children are a mess .

The above are heartbreaking. when my first husband and I split up we both agreed never to badmouth each other to the children. Our relationship was our problem, not theirs and we were both still their mum and dad.

I totally agree that using children as pawns in the break up battle is a form of child abuse.

My son met, and lived with girlfriend for 2 years, she had a little boy of 9 months at the time
, the father had walked out on her. My son is so soppy and puts women on pedestals, he jumped straight in to look after her , and the child was treated like his son, and accepted into the family, after 1-2 years cracks started to show, she is bi-polar, and started seeing blokes again unknown to son whilst he babysat, , she was eventually found out and it all ended, she posted vicious remarks on facebook, My son does not have any financial responsibilities for the boy, but it really upset him as it was like losing a child,She has on -off relationship with boys natural father now, but its put son off women now hes 41, ....and would rather go to sports events, off camping/walking than be bothered with women,

I am so sorry this is happening Grandma. Why can't parents put the children first??. They have a right to enjoy both their parents without rancour and having to choose between them.

My ex daughter in law is very close to us and we keep friends. She always put the kids first and never puts herself. They have been divorced for 9 years and are best of friends. She has recently remarried and has 2 new step children. We are lucky .

It takes the parents acting as grown-up s and putting children first. Also keeping everyone's role in the children's lives on track., that includes grandparents. Parents have no right to set their children such a bad example.

These stories are heart rending. to everyone in these very difficult family situations. I don't know what else I can say, except just carry on giving that support and well done, you Grandparents!

Mediation is a really good idea unless one of the parties is so stupid that they will only do it if their ex isn't in the same room!

RedheadedMommy has a point. Not that it helps Grandma2213 in her situation, where, like others I can only say to go on trying to keep as neutral as possible for the sake if the children. I think you are absolutely doing the right thing.

Re sex-offenders... having worked with them I can hand on heart say they are so friendly, so obliging, so easy to talk to that their ex wives and partners have a very tough time of it! If you didn't know the truth you would totally believe these people are the best thing since sliced bread. Generally, however, we only see part of a relationship, so if I've learnt anything over the years it's to not always believe what you think you see.

Yes, both men and women can be abusive and vindictive. Maybe we see more women like this now because in the 'old days' women belonged to their husbands. Now we belong to ourselves. When I worked with women in refuge (yes, I did that too), there were all sorts of women escaping abusive relationships - including some who were bullies themselves, but I've also supported a small number of very downtrodden and abused men too. One over seven years who still would not/could not leave his wife and children

On a positive note, a friend's son has been determinedly keeping contact with his son who was taken away by his ex - eventually to Australia. She made life really difficult for him especially after she remarried and tried everything possible to cut him out. Now his son is 19 and last summer (at 18) he has come back to the UK, moved in with his dad and is going to university here. He had a summer job in the same business as his dad (which he organised himself) and the two of them are doing some serious catching up - they are inseparable. The dad held firm in the face of everything. He never ever said anything against the mum (even to my friend when his gifts weren't allowed etc) and now he feels the rewards of patience and being constant are very sweet. I haven't seen him so happy since he himself was 19! I am just SO happy for them all.

I have seen situations like this from both sides with various friends & it is heartbreaking. ALL that really matters is the happiness of the children & if everyone could concentrate on this it could be OK but some people are just totally unreasonable.
When my son & his wife were separating they went to see someone- was it called 'reconciliation counselling' or something? They then signed a legally binding paper (as did all the family to say we would support them) agreeing everything in the minutest detail. 4 years down the line they are on very good terms- the children move back & forth seamlessly & are very happy & they still go out ' as a family' at least once a month. I'm not saying it was easy but it has worked out. I am on very good terms with DiL ( no divorce yet) & when I go to pick up children DS is often there having a cuppa & doing a bit of DIY..
They have both met other partners although nothing serious yet- the paper has clauses for how this is handled too.
It might be worth looking into but it has to be done at the start before things get out of hand.
They had to pay for it I should add.

I'm so sorry for the horrific troubles that many of you Gransnetters are experiencing when your DC are divorcing or separating and DGC are involved.

I am convinced that the rise in use of social media is largely to blame for the very obvious rise in acrimonious separations, and the appalling way in which people manipulate situations through their children. To my mind, it's nothing short of child abuse, and I can't imagine how anyone with a shred of self-respect and dignity can stoop to the level of spreading intimate family troubles, and sometimes blatant untruths, all over Facebook and the like.

I use Facebook myself, as I find it useful for swapping random info and photos with friends and family. I presume that's what it was intended for, but daily I'm appalled at the things I see posted. It's usually something like "He/she is making my life hell" followed by messages of support, very often offering violent intervention, and advice like "Make sure he never sees them kids again!".

The Courts take the view that access to a parent is a right of the child, not the entitlement or choice of the parent, and will always try to ensure that access is maintained, no matter what the parties' individual opinions of each other. However it's not difficult to upset a child, and manipulate them into deciding that they don't want to see the other parent. The poor little souls just want a peaceful life so that they can get on with being children, but they are forced into the position of having to protect their parents from each other - and dropping my professional hat for a second - wouldn't you think that those parents could do with a good slap?

It's a very difficult situation - the Courts will always try to arrange and maintain access, but they have little redress against a non-compliant parent (usually the mother), as imposing a heavy fine or even a custodial sentence for not obeying access directives, will obviously have a bad effect on the childrens' welfare.

Anyway, rant over. Like the man said "There's nowt so queer as folk!"

I have only seen the just 5 yr and nearly 7yr old for about an hour since before CH......s. I could write a book.

This has been such an eye opener for me. This is exactly how my S's sometime partner is behaving. She is bipolar and I put it all down to that but now I realise just how controlling she is. She had told terrible lies about him and I had the headmaster of the children's school ring me to ask what is going on. She told him the children were at risk from him. He is currently out of work due to depression, but it doesn't stop her ringing at 7 in the morning demanding he take the children to 2separate schools, he isn't a risk to them then when it suits her. That happened again this morning and she wanted suncream which obviously she couldn't be bothered to go out and buy at the weekend.

I think you are just unlucky and it's very general sweeping statement you don't have to be 'young' to be a bitch and neither a 'mom' you could be a dad.

I know a lady who has a son. The father is forever posting on facebook about how he misses him, only wants the best for him, isn't allowed to see him as much as he wants etc. You really feel for him.
In real life, they have been to court, he is only allowed contact for 2 hours per month supervised as he is on the sex offenders register as he had sex with a minor. He used to beat his partner and mentally abused her. SS was involed and said its either you split up or you lose your son.
Of course he doesn't tell people that.

There are good and bad on both sides. You may know these people but not really know them or the full story. This is men and women.

I agree with you about Mumsnet jings. I had a look at it last week searching for some help on school appeals. I wandered off onto some other threads and was quite appalled by the nastiness . I am so glad my DDiL has nothing to do with it.