What's happening to young mums?

So sorry you and yours are dealing with this, Grandma! My heart goes out to you!

I don't know if these situations are more common today, but I know I have often heard of cases like these. IF they are more common, nowadays, it may be cuz we're more aware of abuse/domestic violence (thankfully) and some women twist this knowledge and use it to make false accusations and hurt their X/the dad.

Also, IMO, it's one of the downsides of the increase in couples not getting married and in those having kids, anyway. When a marriage ends in divorce, working out custody/visitation is generally part of the proceedings. But when an unmarried couple splits up, that's not the case, unless they go to court, right away. And so, people, IMO, are more likely to do things at will or even on the whim of the moment or the advice of a friend. Not saying divorced Xs can't be difficult, too. But my guess is this kind of thing happens more often among never-married couples, perhaps cuz they don't sort things out in court so quickly and so there's time for all kinds of drama and recriminations to build up, if that makes any sense.

Not saying either that I think every couple should marry or that I'm against their having babies out of wedlock. Far from it. Just saying greater complications regarding visitation may be one of the drawbacks.

Regardless, I'm glad DS is going to a solicitor. IMO, if he's afraid his X will still find ways to withhold visitation, he might want to ask about going for joint custody if that's a possibility. "Flexible" is probably not good here, regardless, IMO, as it may give the X too much room to "play games" (my words).

"So far I am the only one allowed to go near her house. I have kept as neutral as possible over the years..."

This is telling, IMO. Sorry but I can't help but suspect that your other DS and his partner have, quite understandably, voiced support for the dad and maybe even said some very negative things about the X (hopefully not in front of the kids). If she questions the children about what's being said, it's clearly cuz she feels she has reason to worry about that (even though she may have created the situation). Obviously, for whatever reason, she's more comfortable with you. Please please, please keep your neutral stance - not just for your own sake, but for that of DS and your GC.

It breaks my heart to hear about those GC " becoming increasingly clingy to their dad." Poor little dolls! Like you, I don't understand how anyone can bear to do this to their kids! But ironically, there are many loving mothers out there, too, who would give their eye teeth to have their X/their kids' father visit more consistently or at all. And in your family's case, you seem to be a key factor in keeping DS and his children connected. So please don't feel "ashamed to be a woman." (((Hugs)))

I sympathise with your family, it's a frustrating, heartbreaking situation it makes me fume when people use their children as pawns. I thinkWendysue has a point. .
There are great and bad mums and great and bad dads.
When D first separated from her husband the children lived with her and their dad had unlimited access including taking them abroad.
Due to circumstances they now live with their dad. D has to negotiate with him every time to see them. It's always at his convenience. D is currently at college so living on us and JSA. He threatened her with having to pay CSA in order to see them, that would be £7 a week. He's on £2000 a month !!! She is only allowed to talk to the oldest via facetime or text if he is in the room so he can vet the conversation. I could go on.........

I do think this sort of behaviour is becoming more common and that WendySue made a good point about couples having children while not married.

As a retired teacher I saw many acrimonious marriage break-ups. Children caught in the middle, wives 'punishing' dads by denying access. But now with the current trend to have 'partners' the situation is more definately worse.

Add to that the new breed to woman who has definite ideas of her entitlement, but may be sadly lacking in other areas, and this is going to become more common.

I agree, our experience is very similar to the op's but with DD3'S Idiot of an exhusband dictating terms. The children are currently 'exchanged' in a Co-op car park in the next village by DD'S partner because the Idiot 'cant cope with seeing' their mother.

I was agreeing with nina.

I was concentrating on this new breed of women kitty but I acknowledge completely that men can be just as controlling and vindictive.

I think "social media" Is greatly to blame, including a well known parenting site. The women egg each other on.

When I was a member of Mumsnet a few years back, I was surprised at the way the women usually suggested breaking up the marriage, rather than making any attempt to remedy troubles.

I wonder if these people could help Grandma2231

Families need fathers

I agree with you about Mumsnet jings. I had a look at it last week searching for some help on school appeals. I wandered off onto some other threads and was quite appalled by the nastiness . I am so glad my DDiL has nothing to do with it.

I think you are just unlucky and it's very general sweeping statement you don't have to be 'young' to be a bitch and neither a 'mom' you could be a dad.

I know a lady who has a son. The father is forever posting on facebook about how he misses him, only wants the best for him, isn't allowed to see him as much as he wants etc. You really feel for him.
In real life, they have been to court, he is only allowed contact for 2 hours per month supervised as he is on the sex offenders register as he had sex with a minor. He used to beat his partner and mentally abused her. SS was involed and said its either you split up or you lose your son.
Of course he doesn't tell people that.

There are good and bad on both sides. You may know these people but not really know them or the full story. This is men and women.

This has been such an eye opener for me. This is exactly how my S's sometime partner is behaving. She is bipolar and I put it all down to that but now I realise just how controlling she is. She had told terrible lies about him and I had the headmaster of the children's school ring me to ask what is going on. She told him the children were at risk from him. He is currently out of work due to depression, but it doesn't stop her ringing at 7 in the morning demanding he take the children to 2separate schools, he isn't a risk to them then when it suits her. That happened again this morning and she wanted suncream which obviously she couldn't be bothered to go out and buy at the weekend.

I have only seen the just 5 yr and nearly 7yr old for about an hour since before CH......s. I could write a book.

I'm so sorry for the horrific troubles that many of you Gransnetters are experiencing when your DC are divorcing or separating and DGC are involved.

I am convinced that the rise in use of social media is largely to blame for the very obvious rise in acrimonious separations, and the appalling way in which people manipulate situations through their children. To my mind, it's nothing short of child abuse, and I can't imagine how anyone with a shred of self-respect and dignity can stoop to the level of spreading intimate family troubles, and sometimes blatant untruths, all over Facebook and the like.

I use Facebook myself, as I find it useful for swapping random info and photos with friends and family. I presume that's what it was intended for, but daily I'm appalled at the things I see posted. It's usually something like "He/she is making my life hell" followed by messages of support, very often offering violent intervention, and advice like "Make sure he never sees them kids again!".

The Courts take the view that access to a parent is a right of the child, not the entitlement or choice of the parent, and will always try to ensure that access is maintained, no matter what the parties' individual opinions of each other. However it's not difficult to upset a child, and manipulate them into deciding that they don't want to see the other parent. The poor little souls just want a peaceful life so that they can get on with being children, but they are forced into the position of having to protect their parents from each other - and dropping my professional hat for a second - wouldn't you think that those parents could do with a good slap?

It's a very difficult situation - the Courts will always try to arrange and maintain access, but they have little redress against a non-compliant parent (usually the mother), as imposing a heavy fine or even a custodial sentence for not obeying access directives, will obviously have a bad effect on the childrens' welfare.

Anyway, rant over. Like the man said "There's nowt so queer as folk!"

I have seen situations like this from both sides with various friends & it is heartbreaking. ALL that really matters is the happiness of the children & if everyone could concentrate on this it could be OK but some people are just totally unreasonable.
When my son & his wife were separating they went to see someone- was it called 'reconciliation counselling' or something? They then signed a legally binding paper (as did all the family to say we would support them) agreeing everything in the minutest detail. 4 years down the line they are on very good terms- the children move back & forth seamlessly & are very happy & they still go out ' as a family' at least once a month. I'm not saying it was easy but it has worked out. I am on very good terms with DiL ( no divorce yet) & when I go to pick up children DS is often there having a cuppa & doing a bit of DIY..
They have both met other partners although nothing serious yet- the paper has clauses for how this is handled too.
It might be worth looking into but it has to be done at the start before things get out of hand.
They had to pay for it I should add.

RedheadedMommy has a point. Not that it helps Grandma2213 in her situation, where, like others I can only say to go on trying to keep as neutral as possible for the sake if the children. I think you are absolutely doing the right thing.

Re sex-offenders... having worked with them I can hand on heart say they are so friendly, so obliging, so easy to talk to that their ex wives and partners have a very tough time of it! If you didn't know the truth you would totally believe these people are the best thing since sliced bread. Generally, however, we only see part of a relationship, so if I've learnt anything over the years it's to not always believe what you think you see.

Yes, both men and women can be abusive and vindictive. Maybe we see more women like this now because in the 'old days' women belonged to their husbands. Now we belong to ourselves. When I worked with women in refuge (yes, I did that too), there were all sorts of women escaping abusive relationships - including some who were bullies themselves, but I've also supported a small number of very downtrodden and abused men too. One over seven years who still would not/could not leave his wife and children

On a positive note, a friend's son has been determinedly keeping contact with his son who was taken away by his ex - eventually to Australia. She made life really difficult for him especially after she remarried and tried everything possible to cut him out. Now his son is 19 and last summer (at 18) he has come back to the UK, moved in with his dad and is going to university here. He had a summer job in the same business as his dad (which he organised himself) and the two of them are doing some serious catching up - they are inseparable. The dad held firm in the face of everything. He never ever said anything against the mum (even to my friend when his gifts weren't allowed etc) and now he feels the rewards of patience and being constant are very sweet. I haven't seen him so happy since he himself was 19! I am just SO happy for them all.

Mediation is a really good idea unless one of the parties is so stupid that they will only do it if their ex isn't in the same room!

These stories are heart rending. to everyone in these very difficult family situations. I don't know what else I can say, except just carry on giving that support and well done, you Grandparents!

I am so sorry this is happening Grandma. Why can't parents put the children first??. They have a right to enjoy both their parents without rancour and having to choose between them.

My ex daughter in law is very close to us and we keep friends. She always put the kids first and never puts herself. They have been divorced for 9 years and are best of friends. She has recently remarried and has 2 new step children. We are lucky .

It takes the parents acting as grown-up s and putting children first. Also keeping everyone's role in the children's lives on track., that includes grandparents. Parents have no right to set their children such a bad example.

My son met, and lived with girlfriend for 2 years, she had a little boy of 9 months at the time
, the father had walked out on her. My son is so soppy and puts women on pedestals, he jumped straight in to look after her , and the child was treated like his son, and accepted into the family, after 1-2 years cracks started to show, she is bi-polar, and started seeing blokes again unknown to son whilst he babysat, , she was eventually found out and it all ended, she posted vicious remarks on facebook, My son does not have any financial responsibilities for the boy, but it really upset him as it was like losing a child,She has on -off relationship with boys natural father now, but its put son off women now hes 41, ....and would rather go to sports events, off camping/walking than be bothered with women,

I totally agree that using children as pawns in the break up battle is a form of child abuse.

The above are heartbreaking. when my first husband and I split up we both agreed never to badmouth each other to the children. Our relationship was our problem, not theirs and we were both still their mum and dad.

Same with me, nanaGill. Until eldest daughter was 20ish, she asked me outright about it, and I told her a little bit.
So what has changed? As others have said, partly the growth of social media, and partly the rampant materialism that exists now. A good example being our ex-neighbours, she managed to get him a criminal conviction. The poor children are a mess .