Nasty thread on Mumsnet about a Gransnet thread

Thanks for the compliment! It just seems to me that everyone wants to tell their own tale (usually involving a complaint about men) and isn't listening to anybody else - because there are too many members.

There are a few "listeners", but most just want to solve everything by "LTB" whatever that means.
And please, tell me why it's so great to have been "in therapy"?
I despair.

Listening doesn't have to mean comming to a conclusion one way or another. There isn't an "answer" to people's life stories. I find it incredibly helpful just to hear from other people have had similar experiences, that to me is helpful.

Maybe people don't post to be "fixed" or confirmed as correct or incorrect. They just post to "get it out"

Tricia LTB = Leave the bastard.
Yes, I know

I love your post notanan where you make a summary of this thread ( and in case there be any doubt I'm being sarcastic) . I've readthrough your many many posts again and I simply don't see some of the conclusions you have reached at all.

And before you hasten to list all the he said/ she said notes from various posters , please don't trouble yourself I, like you have reached some conclusions.

Firstly ,the trouble with the written word/ text is that it is open to interpretation. Two people can read the same thing and both take away something different.

Secondly, that you weren't expecting a consensus or even advice on your position because you're immovable. And that's fine , it's your life.

And finally , what I wonder was the point? That's not being sarcastic, just questioning.

I'm in two minds but have a shrewd suspicion I know why.

Anyway, I for one have been interested to read your posts , but as you said previously we are on opposing sides in this debate I think.

In what way am I immovable? what "movement" have you suggested other than ones I have in fact tried (but you assumed I hadn't) I actually have done all of the things you suggested I do NanaandGrampy so in what way does that make me "Immovable"?

What were the alternatives?

You've got something in common with my mother in that respect NanaandGrampy.

Say I had a bad day at work and I made the mistake of telling her:

"How's work?"
"Generally fine, but today was stressful, had a meeting about X or Y"
"why don't you quit, you could do Z instead"
"no I don't want to quit, like the job, I just had a rough day"
"well! why did you bother asking me if you're just going to continue doing what you're doing anyway"
"I was just saying I had a bad day, it's not important"
"Now you're dismissing me, I'm not allowed an opinion! You're always silencing me"
"Because I don't want to quit my job?"
"well, if you're so unhappy in your job then what else should I suggest"
"You don't have to suggest anything, I''m not unhappy in the job generally, just had a stressful day, I'm sorry I mentioned it, was just making conversation"
"well why did you bring it up if you're just going to rubbish anything I have to say about it?"

NanaandGrampy, you seem annoyed with me because your suggestions can't "fix" the situation I described (I know because I've tried them all!). Is that why you me as "immovable" ?

It's also interesting that on the one had I am being inconsistent because I brought up whether there could be any future contact (as in, the GN thread lef me thinking: probably not!) as well as explaining why no contact is probably the best case scenario.

What is wrong with being sad that it has to be NC as well as recognising that NC is the happiest option available to us?

Which am I? inconsistant or immovable? they're mutually exclusive descriptions

I am not even mildly annoyed notanan . Did you read that from my comments? Because you couldn't be further from the truth.

Would you like me to be? Or is that just how you read my post?

I don't want to 'fix' your situation, I only offered my thoughts . I wouldn't think for a moment I could fix anything much on a forum.

I said you were 'immovable' because you appear to have reached a conclusion that works for you and you have said many times you've tried everything. So I inferred from that you were set on your planned course of action - immovably.

Are you angry with me notanan ?

I became estranged from my whole family many years ago. It was the most important and best decision I've ever made, though of course it wasn't easy.

Not sure why I've read these threads but it only confirmed in my mind why it had to be this way.

It's the circular arguments that go round and round and round, with no resolution. It's just the same here and I would advise anyone being triggered to step away.

No sane adult merely decides one sunny morning that they won't speak to their family again. There are always reasons. For what makes us human but a primal need and urge to love and be loved by our parents. To see them love our own children and be close to them. That is usually given up with a lot of heart ache. I can tell you that the pain I felt was like a chain around my heart. But the chain is broken now and I feel free.

And yes I'm sure my family hurt too but they have no insight into how they could grow and change and bring themselves happiness and meaningful relationships. I feel very sorry for them.

When I left, my other relationships became much stronger because the time I'd spent having these circular arguments and dramas were now spent with people who treated me like an adult.

I have three children and I would do or say anything to make our relationship work. Sorry even if deep down I felt I'd done nothing wrong. Keeping quiet when necessary. Praising, listening, looking inside myself, therapy what the hell ever it took.

Love is all there is. There is nothing more important than my children. They would be an awful price to pay for being right.

So I inferred from that you were set on your planned course of action
none of this was my planned or preferred "course of action", you think anyone hopes to be pushed away by their parents to the point of having to go NC just to save your family from more damage?
What an utterly strange perspective you have on all of this. "planned course of action". Amazing!

No I'm not angry at you, I just find your posts about me as fascinating as they are bizarre

infer

verb
deduce or conclude (something) from evidence and reasoning rather than from explicit statements.

So yes I inferred.

I said planned ...... Meaning having made your choices you made a plan...ergo ...planned.

I never said preferred.

No I don't think anyone hopes to be pushed away by their parents..... I didn't say that.

You obviously didn't read my post.

For what makes us human but a primal need and urge to love and be loved by our parents. To see them love our own children and be close to them

Yes, it's what we all desire. We don't all get it though, some of us get coldness, control, manipulation and anger towards us instead when all we desperately crave is a normal loving family. What's worse, is that the coldness and anger is labelled as "love", because for our parents, that's how love feels, and that's what they teach us to accept as "love"
But somehow.. we are lucky enough to have enough positive outsiders in our life that we learn otherwise, and we learn that our parents way of "loving" is not okay. We can hope and try to make the version of "love" that is expressed by our parents more normal, or if that's not achievable, at least within some ground rules to do some damage control.

But if they still think their way of loving is okay. And it still not only hurts and damages us, but begins to damage our children.. then we might finally be forced to walk away from what we've wanted our whole lives, but never quite achieved, the hope of a healthy relationship with our parents.

Hope you haven't taken that quote out of context. I wrote it to explain why people don't just walk away from family contact for no reason. It's ingrained in us from childhood to need and want it.

No, I was agreeing with you
That's not what you walk away from, that's what you want. What you walk away from is the hurt and pain of that not being achievable no matter what you do.

Has Gransnet been taken over by Mumsnet? I am seeing a lot of unfamiliar names and it seems that some of these posters are of our DCs' generation. I am also aware of a lot of anger and bitteress which seems now to be directed at ALL parents/grandparents as if we share some collective guilt.
I'm out.

I have read through some of the comments, I did skip a few pages so forgive me if I have missed anything.

I actually feel my blood boiling reading your comments notanan. I am the daughter of one of the posters and am a mum myself.
I feel nc is a selfish and immature act.

I personally am deeply embarrassed by my sister's behaviour and hate it when I have to explain the situation to people. My crime with them, is not siding with them against my mum. They turned my brother against us and have now cut all family ties.

I even tried to resolve things with them several times, they wanted me to get on my hands and knees to beg forgiveness, which I refused. My bil threw a tantrum that I would not meet at their house on my own and was not pleased when I met my sister last year whilst pregnant.
I know he must not have been pleased, as my sister was postive when we met and I heard she had negative views afterwards, through a family member. She confirmed he knew we was meeting but I don't believe he did.

My sister admitted she was suffering from depression in her emails to me, when I let her know my baby was born, the emails ended on a sour note and again I believe it's because my bil saw the emails.

If the adult child does not wish to have a relationship with their parent, then that doesn't mean the children cannot have a relationship with their grandparent. I want my baby to be surrounded with all her family and love. In China they respect their elders and it's a shame the western world doesn't follow suit.

I just wanted to give another point of view of the situation.

sorry notanan . You are most certainly right there.

No anger or bitterness Alea. But sadness really. I've never read Gransnet before and I've only read this thread and a bit of another one for estranged GP.

I am also aware of a lot of anger and bitteress which seems now to be directed at ALL parents/grandparents as if we share some collective guilt

not from me, my kids have a couple of wonderful grandparents who we cherish, we're talking about estranged grandparents, so if I say in the context of this discussion the GPs I mean the estranged ones, not all grandparents, there are some jewels out there!

Leokitty, I don't think that you must by default always take whatever's thrown at you from elders out of respect if they cannot be respectful towards you. If you think we should just blindly respect our elders, then you will never be able understand why anyone walks away, so I don't know that this thread will be particularly helpful to you?

I have read gransnet before, outside of this an the other thread it seems like a good mix/bunch overall.

You sound very angry LeoKitty.

What were your sister's reasons? Was she respected by your parents (I believe respect works both ways. Elders do not earn it just by virtue of age)?

If there are NO reasons and she has been loved and respected all through childhood and beyond then she is unlike any human I've heard of and depression is not really an adequate explanation.

as my sister was postive when we met and I heard she had negative views afterwards

Don't you ever sit through something and smile and nod at the time.. then when you walk away you think back and think "hang on! that's not right"?

I'm a bit like that, I'm unfortunately one of those blessed people who come up with clever retorts on the spot! If someone is mean to me in person in the moment I'll usually just sort of be agog or be baffled.. then later when I'm recounting the event I'll think of all kinds of replies I wished I've given.

I feel like you don't give your sister a voice in your story. You call her actions selfish and immature… but if she tries to express an opinion you dismiss it as probably someone else's opinions (your BILs)

It just reads as if if she ever tries to discuss your families problems, she is dismissed as either being childish or probably just saying that because your BIL probably told her to.

She's not credited with any choices, even her medication (which presumably was prescribed by a professional, who won't have given it to your BIL on her behalf is dismissed, and your mother would wean her off them if she went back (if it's the same poster) and not credit her with chosing when to do that for herself

I have read this thread and the mumsnet thread and have no comment to make about estranged families either way. There is a comment on mumsnet about so and so being the favourite or favoured child, or one child being loved more than others. Whilst I am sure that in some cases this is true, I would just like to say to some mumsnetters that they could be wrong in their thinking. I am very fortunate that I have loving contact with all my children and grandchildren and in laws but I do know that it is possible for children to misunderstand the actions of their parents and assume favouritism where there is none. Sometimes actions can be misunderstood. Sorry this has nothing to do with being estranged or in no contact with families just that adult children can be loved by their parents much more than they realise. Your relationship with your children is different to the relationship with your parents (as it should be because your children are the most important thing) but you are your parents children and are possibly loved more than you realise.

Crafting there's a bit of "in lingo" going on on the MN thread
I can see how you misunderstood. It's not about favouritism in the common sense (my sister got a car for her 17th and I only got a phone)
That's not what is being discussed on there. it's about the Narcissists use of Scapegoat children and Golden children as a form of abuse.
TOTALLY differernt from the general concept of favouritism

Sorry notanan I probably did misunderstand ( I certainly don't get the lingo as you rightly point out) I just didn't like the thought of someone feeling "second best" in life as sometimes (and I accept not always) they could havve misjudged the situation (I misjudged my MIL and it wasn't until I got older and realised I had become her that I finally caught on to where she had been coming from)

yeah I can absolutely see why it wasn't clear

in fact it's not a case of feeling "second best" because in situations with a narcissist the "golden child" is actually the least desirable situation in the whole family, the less favoured "scapegoat" gets a way out.. so it's kind of the other way around, you are better off "under the radar" or out of favour than being the chosen golden child in a narcissists family.

Because the version of "love" in these homes is very unhealthy. You don't want to be at the forefront of it