Nasty thread on Mumsnet about a Gransnet thread

what's really sad and depressing, is that GN on this issue is being represented by posters who discourage other viewpoints or opinions that disagree with their own, who refuse to even consider there may have been even one thing that they have done wrong.

I'm not being represented by anyone! You're missing the point !

There are some people who through their own experience have viewpoints or opinions. There are other people who have vastly different opinions. On the thread you refer to there are about 5-10 regular posters. On GN in total there are thousands of us.

So those posters are not representing anyone but how they feel. And whether you agree with their opinions or not they are entitled to them and to express them. That doesn't make you right and them wrong...it simply makes you different.

Please stop trying desperately to fit us all in the same box. It's offensive.

Notanan, sorry if it came across as if I were saying that everyone who COs is a DIL COing a MIL. If you look again, I also mentioned "AC" and "parents." Most of my post focused on MIL/DIL cuz that's what I so often hear about. But I know a lot of MNers have distanced their own parents, just as many GNers have been pushed away by their own AC. I thought it was clear I know that there are other estranged relationships. Sorry if it wasn't.

Smieless, thank you for the compliment!

notanan I have no personal interest in the cut out of their lives thread that has exercised you, but it strikes me that there's some inconsistency in your position.
You seem to be saying that reconciliation would only be possible if the parent who has been subjected to NC were prepared to move on and create a new dynamic or words to that effect.
At the same time, you say your mother can't help 'being herself' and thus implying there's no way she can change herself to achieve this change.
Do you see what I mean? A bit Catch 22, isn't it?
Can I ask, if one if your own children had a personality or behaviour traits that you considered led to your relationship with them being 'unhealthy' - would you go NC with your own child?

Also want to add that I haven't seen many posters on those threads expressing "hatred" of their AC, as some accuse. What I've seen is anger, deep hurt, and a loss of trust. But maybe I'm just reading it differently than those who see hatred. It can be hard to read emotion on the Internet.

notanan - I think I agree with you in that, in some instances, the healthy place is to NC, if there really is no hope .
In most cases though, there may be hope.

Yogagirl - just a thought. I dont think things should be forgotten. But not held on to. And forgiveness helps.

I have never read the thread being referred to.
If people who have read it think it is wrong to give real names, why not report such posts to GNHQ and ask for the names to be deleted?

Sometimes though, for sanity's sake, distance [both physical and mental] is required.

It's fine for someone to identify themself, if they want, but not if that also identifies others.

I am lucky to have a splendid relationship with my two. Not sure why though. We tend to leave each other alone to get on with our lives, just catching up by text about once a week, or phone if conversation needs to be more in depth e.g. Talk about elderly grandmother or problems one or other of us have.We rejoice everyone's success, and support where it is needed. That works both ways. We know that if we need them - at our age it is largely health issues- they will be there. Likewise we do the same. We are always available to help with the grandchildren, although there are clear boundaries which we are all happy with. We get together high days and holidays and eat, drink and are merry. None of us criticises any one of the others to each other, never have never will. It's called unconditional live.

The two siblings are totally different with little in common, but their relationship survives well because they seem to recognise this and so accept that they will never be best friends, but friends in as much they have a common history, parents and if needed they provide support to each other.

I guess it works for us, but not for everyone. Everyone's different.

Your situation sounds very like ours whitewave. We're not living in each others pockets, but we all know that the others are there if we need them. I feel very sad when I hear or read of families who are split/not talking.

Yes baden I think it must be awful to lose the support of those who should be most dear. If I thought I lost one or other of my children through ill feeling my heart would break and part of me would never heal.

Before this happened to my family on the 16th Nov 2012, we too were that happy united family, I too would say "I would never allow a split to happen, I would fix it" I have jumped through hoops to do just this. My beloved daughter & grandchildren live just 5mins down the rd, but I haven't seen them in 3.5yrs!
It began with my D & her husband having a huge argument, whilst I & my ND were on holiday, we came back to help. My D stayed with me for a few days & I tried to mediate between them, to get them back together. When I said to s.i.l "You know J.. will get custody of L [not his C ] therefore J [his C] and it's the mother & C that stay in the family home" I said it in a nice way, to make him realise it wouldn't stay as he had it, my D out in the cold without her C. Anyway with my saying that, his hate turned from my D to me, he took her back and cut me out! Put my D on high dose anti-depressants to manage her, she is still on them now, even though she told him they make her feel like a zombie!
Obeione I know it is said to forgive and that that is the Christian way, but I cannot , my heart has been broken into a thousand pieces, it can never heal, if we were reunited, my heart would stay broken, it is too badly damaged. You would have to read 3.5yrs of posts, to hear the whole story. My s.i.l destroyed my family, smashed it to pieces, yet I had been only kind & generous to him. It is not just me I think about, my ND [estD sister] has been badly effected, not to mention my precious little GD, we worry about her every day, how she is being treated, is she safe, we cannot watch over her and protect her, I pray every day to keep her safe. But also my estD has been brainwashed to hate her birth family, that she was so close to before the above date, she has been damaged too by her H & his mother.
I just hope one day my estD will stop the drugs her H has put her on and then she'll say again; I feel like the fog has lifted from my brain and l can think clearly for myself again they were her words when she stayed with me, she was not on anti-depressants then, but bombarded with her H negativities, especially about herself.

Is your SiL a doctor yogagirl?

No Jane I asked that question myself. He took her to the doctors and sat there with her, insisting on a high does drug. When my D told me she felt like a zombie, I told her to half the does, which she did and felt tons better. My s.i.l is a drug addict, doesn't hide the fact, so this is where the problems lie!

Sorry dose

Sorry to hear about your troubles yogagirl. Your DD does not have to take any drugs she does not wish to - perhaps she could talk to her GP again. This must all be a big worry for you.

He didn't allow her to stay on half a tab, he insisted she took the full dose, knowing it didn't suit her and made her feel really ill and dysfunctional !

I wanted to talk to her doctor about it, but confidentiality!

Every time I hear an ambulance or a helicopter go by, I think of my D, fearing somethings happened to her.

yogagirl Medical confidentiality only goes one way - you could tell her doctor all this, without him having to tell you anything and break that confidentiality. Then, if he thinks it advisable, he can send her a "prescription review" letter to make an appointment and discuss her medication. If that appointment is without your SiL (or even if he insists on being there) the doctor can subtly ask the right questions and find out just what strength of tablets she needs, without being influenced by what SiL says. He might even uncover some other aspects of her home life.

Yoga, I don't recall if this has been said before, but, sadly, sil probably took your custody comment as a threat, no matter how nicely you said it. Even so, he sounds like a very controlling man.

If you know that he made estD take the full dose of her meds, then she must have still been talking to you at the time, But why did she listen to him? He's either very persuasive or else he has some kind of hold on her.

Whitewave and Badenkate, your families' relationships sound beautiful! My family is fine, too, though we've had some rocky moments. I've learned not to question/criticize my adult DDs' choices and that has made things go more smoothly. (Fortunately, they haven't made too many of those, IMO, and never made any seriously bad ones, that I know of.).

But still, I read some of the stories here and think "there but for fortune..." Cuz I figure you (general) never know exactly which way the wind will blow.

Sorry to post so much but I meant to say this earlier and, unfortunately, we can't edit/add to posts on here.... Some MNers are critical of an EP asking for an explanation for their AC's anger at them. But I don't see any harm in that. Hard to redress a wrong if you (general) don't know what it is.

If the EAC has already told the EP what the problem is and the EP keeps acting like they "don't know" what happened, then that's a different story. I see that some of the MNers are saying that's how it was in their situations and I totally get if they just gave up explaining after a while. Same if explanations just led to more arguing and criticizing by the EPs.

But some GNers have said that they already acknowledged and apologized for their mistakes. And that all it led to was their AC/CIL accusing them of further offenses which they (EP) say the didn't commit. It seems in those cases, the AC/CIL are just making excuses. Either they can't bring themselves to talk about the real issues or they just want to remain estranged.

Or maybe the EAC and EPs in those cases just see the same behavior differently. Unfortunately, I think these things can be more complex than meets the eye.

WendySue

Third para of your post that begins 'But some etc etc

You put it most succinctly - some grans are damned whatever they do to try and move a relationship forward with AC or DIL/ SIL. They (the AC) can always find a 'reason' to stay away and withhold their children from the grandparents.
I just wonder if some of the 'abuse' referred to is just not agreeing with someone's point of view! Hmmm....

I am not estranged from my son (most definitely not - he's a kind and loving person) but his partner has estranged herself from us. Frankly, we are relieved!
We understood that when their child was born they both had sleepless nights and that she more than likely was suffering from PND. We gave help and support only when it was asked for, never made unscheduled visits and never,ever judged or criticised. Despite our best efforts she was extremely rude to us and we have been the target of her outbursts on several occasions.

It took us a while to realise we were being bullied.

Since she cut herself off, our lives are peaceful again, we don't have to tread on eggshells. My son brings DGS to see us regularly. I am so proud of him that he has the balls to stand up to this woman.

Where it goes from here I have no idea, but we are just enjoying a nice, quiet life.

estrangement is the happy ending nannaandgrampy

Over the years I have begun to realise that this is indeed the case for my family (ie myself and our DC). My husband said this all along, and clearly believed it from the very start of the fall-out. I couldn't see it at first, because in my (maybe slightly immature?) mind I still held out for the 'prefect' happy extended family for my children.

But my husband clearly knew his parents much better than I did. They had managed to put on a facade of 'happy families' for me for a few years, or at least until I dared to argue with them. All along he used to warn me that we should keep them at arms length to a certain extent, no matter how 'nice' they could be and how much they had 'mellowed'. I suppose twenty-odd years of their bully-style parenting was what really showed their true colours .

I know I am lucky, I have a lovely husband who treats me well and is the kindest person I know. He is a wonderful dad to our children, despite being given pretty much no direction on that front growing up himself. If the subject ever comes up he is quick to remind me that the 'loving grandparents' I wish for from his side of the family never actually existed.

Usually I am pretty much reconciled with all this, just that this thread, and the one on MN really hit me hard for some reason

yogagirl I'm puzzled. You say that your SIL is a drug addict - can you expand on that - and also that your dd is on heavy duty antidepressants. How do you know that this is the current situation as you haven't had any contact for 3.5 years?