Relationships are they so awful?

Grannyactivist, I had some terrible therapists! And also some gifted, knowledgeable ones. I think that, in the beginning, it wouldn't have mattered too much if the practitioner was incompetent: I needed to be heard more than anything else. As things moved along, though, it became easier to recognise when a counsellor was projecting their own crap onto my story or out of their depth - and to guide the sessions myself, while looking around for a stronger alternative.

Groups have been massively helpful for me ... although, again, some groups simply reflect their members' weaknesses onto each other like an echo chamber, whilst others are full of healthy & insightful challenges.

I note Celia Walden in today's DT says how "therapy-speak and psycho- lingo have soaked through everything....permeating our souls with a gloopy empathy that is more irritating than useful to anyone you are trying to help"
Perhaps that is part of the problem, everyone feels qualified to dish out the psychobabble without the relevant training, and expertise or accountability.

Rereading my last post, I think I should have said that I realize some pain is too great for one to be able to manage it oneself. Look at the pain so many people are in here. But that gets back to needing to reach out for counseling or for groups like these.

GA, sorry you were eventually disappointed in your chosen career and hope you discovered something else that you enjoy. I found your post very interesting and informative. I hesitate to make this next comment cuz I don't have your knowledge or expertise, but I would guess that one person's crappy therapist is another person's godsend. We all respond to different practitioners in any field (I do realize there are some phonies and some truly bad ones). And maybe different types of therapy, too - which may be why we need the 7 types referenced earlier...

I have never considered therapy - I tend to overthink everything anyway and the last thing I need is encouragement!

I always imagine a therapist would be like your "sweet" friend who is sooo sympathetic when you have problems and wants to hear the whole story, while secretly revelling in the whole situation. Apologies to any therapists on GN, that's probably totally unfair, but I really don't understand why anyone would want to involve themselves in others' problems, unless they were close friends or family. I remember Roger Moore's comment when asked about his seemingly sunny personality and untroubled outlook on life. He said, "The trouble with sharing your problems is that 90% of people don't care and most of the rest are glad you've got them", A little cynical, perhaps, but I have to admit that's pretty much how I look at it.

I don't think many people set out to cause hurt and distress in relationships, but reading some of the threads on GN, it seems that most of the problems are caused because someone else has not behaved as the particular poster would like them to. In my own relationships, I tend to cut other people as much slack as I can stand to, but beyond a certain point I do stop contact with them or keep it to the absolute minimum possible. We can't dictate how others should behave, but if they cause us distress, I don't think anything is gained by endlessly analysing their reasons for the behaviour or explaining to anyone else why it upsets us so much. Some relationships will never work well because of the personalities involved and sometimes we just have to accept that.

I always imagine a therapist would be like your "sweet" friend who is sooo sympathetic when you have problems and wants to hear the whole story, while secretly revelling in the whole situation.

That's what I used to think, madame! In fact, it was what I hoped for when I turned up for my first-ever appointment. "So what's going on in your life?" she asked. In the past week I'd turned 45, had an ovary removed and my husband had left me. "So you've lost two awkward lumps of flesh," she said, "Happy birthday"

Some are totally wussy & woolly though.
I agree with your final paragraph.

GarlicCake - you've reminded me that I belonged to a therapy group once and found it very helpful. I don't think I would take to individual therapy.
And when I was working (as a psychologist) I ran a therapy group for adolescents which seemed to go well. They all turned up regularly anyway.
I don't know why there isn't more group therapy, It must be a more economical form of treatment, in time and money.

Well, I might have to reconsider my ill-informed view on this, GarlicCake. She sounds like my kind of therapist!

Therapists or counsellors should not be wussy, woolly or "sweet" - they are trained to listen, and to hold up a mirror, as it were, to allow people to see themselves and the situation they are in from another perspective, and/or to help people to understand their situation and move forward. Some, of course, are far better than others.

The best are excellent and the worst are useless.

They certainly don't revel in situations as they've heard it all before, many times.

Along with being completely trustworthy, a good psychotherapist will be robust, challenging, insightful and, at times, confrontational, and will expect the client to work at dealing with their issues, as well as possessing the softer elements of therapeutic work. Needless to say they should be very well qualified, and have good and regular supervision.
It's not supposed to be a walk in the park and a pat on the head.

Also agree with Anya's closing comment.

... oops ... meant to say last but one closing comment.

Agreeing totally with Anya and ffinnochio*, is it stating the obvious to add that therapy can only change how you deal with a situation , it cannot change circumstances or make the situation go away (unless it is of your own making) just as anti-depressants cannot make an external problem (poverty, an abusive partner, bereavement, unemployment) go away, but help or enable you to handle it.
Too often it seems that there can be a belief that recourse to medicine or therapy will ""fix" things.
Finally, peer or self-help groups - and I include GN- how often have we seen quite a hostile reaction when the "pat on the head" you refer to is not forthcoming.

I personally don't believe that in reliving bad memories can help anyone. It helps to talk and get perspective and if there are no family or friends that you can talk to, perhaps talking to a a therapist serves a purpose. Constantly rehashing things just makes you relive it. So talk about it but don't let what happened define you as a person and move on. Every family has its problems and sometimes a little breathing space is needed.

Good point about forums such as Gransnet, Alea. In a way they are like therapy groups, or support groups.

Might I just say that children are for life, our life, no one asked to be born, we babysit 2 GC while their parents work, just so they can afford a £230,000 house. They bot have cars and 2 holidays a year.

Is that your choice? Or are you saying you feel an obligation to your children?

Of 'course we feel obligation to our children, what parent doesn't

You sound, however as if you resent the commitment (reference to their "2 cars,2 holidays etc") and there is also the equally valid principle "my children my problem".
I appreciate that most parents would want to help out where they can as childcare is expensive.
No way does my original post cast doubt on the precept that our children are for life.

There have been a number of disgruntled grandparents complaining that they help with childcare so their adult children can drive cars/go on holiday/buy a house. If we don't want to help with childcare, either because we want to enjoy their own lives in a different way or because health prevents us doing so, then why don't we just say that. If finances make it possible, we could contribute by helping with the (astronomical) cost of child care, if we want to.