Relationships are they so awful?

Alea, I get what you're saying. But I've always heard people gripe about those who don't sent TY cards or whether or not they (if they're a GP) get to babysit and so on. They just didn't have any place to go where people would be willing to listen indefinitely and maybe offer them some helpful advice.

Not saying the advice from family or friends is never helpful. I'm sure a lot of the time it is. But it's not always as objective. So, IMO, these threads are valuable, even if the problem being discussed seems "small."

What happened to patience, humour, forbearance, and the acceptance that we and therefore others, are not always perfect? Earlier in the thread somebody said problems and complaints could be debated ad infinitum, I maintain they also get batted to and fro ad nauseam, "nursing their wrath to keep it warm". There is enough misery in the world, enough tragedy in some people's lives not to get so agitated about the trivialities.
Maybe some posts are tongue in cheek and not to be taken seriously, but goodness me, we do seem to like a good old moan!

So Alea, do you advocate no one posting anything about their family problems on Gransnet? I wonder what GNHQ would think of that? Gransnet is supposed to be a supportive place isn't it? (Or so they tell me)

No jingl, read the words, but admit it, there used to be more humour on GN ,
Three pages of moaning because somebody didn't get a birthday card or an expensive enough birthday present really was the last straw!

People don't change. They just have the platforms to air grievances these days.

it's made GN the success it is. Or so they reckon. And perhaps they're right. [shrug]

I couldn't agree more about the lack of humour these days. A jokey post will often receive a sharp rebuke or worse.....a request for an explanation (It's a bloody joke!) Some threads have become no go areas for anyone who prefers to avoid an in depth analysis of their opinions.

Having said that I acknowledge that gransnet should definitely be a supportive place and inappropriate humour should be avoided.

A jokey post will often receive a sharp rebuke or worse - I've noticed this. Admittedly, Mumsnet can be (and is) just as bad, but it's far easier to find another thread where posters are understanding each other.

Perhaps the answer is to be more persistent with the good humour?? Although that can feel so arduous at times, it makes you miserable

I've posted a semi-humourous post on the Boipsy result thread, please take a look, it's not as gross as it sounds, meant to be light-hearted. Not that getting results of tests is light-hearted but relief made me do it!

Now, I think, being a professional winger myself, that we are less tolerant of situations and of each other. I think we live in such a throw away society that it has become embedded into our relationships, starting with divorce and now with family members. Everything is for the short term, nothing's lasting any more. Judge Rinder on his show the other day said to one woman that she had been in a very long term relationship - it was 4 years! I've got underwear older than that! In fact, I think this pair of knickers I'm wearing I put on for the Royal Wedding! Maybe time to change?

I am finding that Gransnet, far from making me feel in any way humorous, is having the opposite effect on me. Perhaps GN really is best avoided.

It was me who wrote about washing dirty linen in public.
I use my own name, and have many relatives who are grandparents and could belong to GN, so I'm usually very careful about what I post. Unless it's something nice.

VampireQueen, your post made me laugh. You've got a very honest, accepting and philosophical way of looking at things. I've found it the best way to stay sane. (smile)

This kind of discussion had drifted onto the thread about families who are NC, and confused with the thread on MN about it, which continues there.
If the MN posters are typical of the current generation of Mums (I wonder?) it makes me feel very concerned about the future of family life.
It seems that any family problem is seen as a kind of mental illness, where a label must be found and therapy is needed. We take a weekly magazine which has a strong American influence, and maybe this approach has now spread to the UK?
Last week's edition had an article on "Choosing the right therapy". 7 different types were described.

Interesting, Tricia. What do you think is so bad about therapy?

"7 different types" of therapy, Tricia? You mean so you (general) can choose the kind you feel is right for you? What's wrong with that?

I wonder why family life in our Western world should occasion apparently occasion the need for therapy of however many types? Is it the breakdown of religious belief? Is it a reflection of a desire to "cure" rather than endure? Is it a breakdown of the ties which used to underpin our society?
Relationships are an imprecise art, and if it is the case that people are rushing to therapists because they are unable to cope , that is a dreadful indictment of our society. And of course a nice little earner for therapists particularly of the "alternative" variety.

The rise in therapists is because there are more accessible therapists, so more people go to them, and so a demand is created. If we didn't have therapists we wouldn't need them (and I'm a therapist. Flippant, I know, and certainly it would have helped both my father and my grandfather if there had been more therapists available to help with their PTSD and anxiety disorders. But there will always be people who want someone else to 'magic' away their problems, so will seek out all sorts of therapies, when really they just need to realise life is tough sometimes. And there are others who really do need therapy. I don't think relationships are any tougher now than they used to be, they just have different pressures and demands. But there are definitely a lot more people out there peddling their 'fix-all' ideas.

One reason the rise in therapists has accelerated is because a)there are so many online courses to become a therapist, (scary because a lot of them are unregulated). b) new age psychology, thanks to the work of 1950's Aaron T Beck has changed Freud's thinking with the introduction of CBT, cognitive behavioural therapy. CBT is now used widely and it is very good as well as popular. New discoveries about how the brain works, ie the amygdala, which stores our emotional feelings, and the hippocampus, which is our rational thinking, means new neural pathways can be formed to introduce new positive thoughts while negative thoughts diminish. Self help books have also propelled the rise of more therapists due to people becoming more self aware that they might need to seek help. The only downside to this is making sure therapists are fully trained and adequately experienced with qualifications that are recognised by professional bodies.

The tools for understanding human behaviours have improved astronomically since my childhood. We now recognise that we have personal responsibility for our actions, that emotions can't be "wrong" but don't have to be acted upon, and there are readily-accessible protocols like CBT that really do help us manage our selves and our lives.

When people are ferociously anti-therapy, I sometimes wonder if they're afraid of being asked to look at their behaviours. This antipathy will become less common, though, as therapeutic tools are taught more in schools.

I think everyone could benefit from some therapy, even if they don't "need" it

** disclosure: I'm not a therapist. I've done about 7 years formal psychotherapy and continue to use my 'tools' daily. Prior to undertaking this work, I learned a fair amount of NLP and Transactional Analysis related stuff as part of my sales training. "Games People Play" is fascinating!

I'm not a therapist either, but I think the rise in therapy is a positive sign. It shows more people are willing to admit that they have problems they can't handle instead of harboring that old attitude of "I can solve my own problems!" I've seen too many people who believed that just make their problems worse or get stuck where they were.... Just my view...

It's a positive sign to me, too, Wendy

How often one sees a blustering bully going "Never did me any harm!" while everybody else quietly observes his purple face and cowed wife/child/employee ... thinking "Really "

Wendysue, again I think it's a generational thing. Our grandparents were taught not to indulge and show their feelings, it was a sign of weakness. Stiff upper lip all the way. Our parents were taught to suffer in silence too, especially women who have only really found equality to a degree in the last 50 years. Foe example, it wasn't until 1991, that the House of Lords in the UK, ruled that it was a crime for a husband to rape his wife. Again, and even not that long ago, our mothers were having to put up with a lot of stifled and repressed emotions behind closed doors. The uncovering of child abuse and domestic violence has meant that society has deemed these issues completely unnacceptable. Nevertheless, we still have to manage their impact and once victims are encouraged to open up and talk, they need help to manage and cope with their feelings. All good so far. That said there is a danger of having too much therapy and then people becoming dependent on it as with any drug or fix. In most counselling and therapy professions, there is a cut off point at which the therapist concludes the ending of sessions. However, therapy can be addictive and there's nothing to stop the client from 'hooking' up with another therapist. This becomes self defeating because the client then doesn't learn to manage and master their emotional health. What they are trying to do is get someone to parent them through life, which obviously isn't healthy. So it does have it's drawbacks.
How do know? I've studied psychology for years but never wanted to work in the field. I did qualify as a life coach however which is about motivating people towards finding their direction in life rather than therapy for dealing with past issues. I don't work in this field either! I do something completely different.

How would it have been if we had lost, I take it that you know.

I have worked in this field; I had extensive training as a counsellor and also studied psychology, but I always find discussions about counselling/therapy a bit like sitting on razor blades. When I did my initial training in 1979/80 I had very positive experiences and enjoyed working as a member of a counselling team. My supervisor and colleagues were people I had a huge admiration and respect for and I never queried their professionalism.

As time went on and regulation became better (a good thing of course) more and more training courses sprang up and suddenly it became the thing to either become a counsellor or receive counselling/therapy. As part of my continuing professional development I attended many courses where, if I'm honest, I met people who I wouldn't let near my dog, much less into my head. When it comes to counselling it is really important for the profession if there is recognition some people will not make effective practitioners, but no-one ever failed any of the courses I took. I gradually lost a lot of faith in the system of training and I eventually withdrew from the profession. I do still know some counsellors/therapists who are remarkably good at what they do, but if I was advising someone to get counselling I wouldn't trust a counsellor having done a training course as sufficient recommendation. Although I most certainly wouldn't go to anyone who wasn't trained and under regular supervision.

Back to Alea's post: I think it's a good thing that people don't just 'put up with' things and that they seek appropriate help, but sometimes I think the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction and we live (here in the affluent West) in a culture of unrealistic expectation that all too often leads to dissatisfaction.

So true, Garlic, so true!

Nina, thanks for that very thorough discussion of therapy! You put a lot in perspective.

" This becomes self defeating because the client then doesn't learn to manage and master their emotional health."

Then again, some people don't know how to do that to begin with or even that they should. They hold other people responsible for their happiness, etc. Of course, obviously, people can impact the happiness of those around them. But some people seem to think that it's their loved ones' job to meet their every expectation to keep them happy. Hopefully, therapy give such people the tools to manage their own emotions, if you know what I mean.

Gonosuch, if who had lost what?

WendySue............or they blame their parents! Dare I say it?

Grannyactivist......good points! A lot of the courses today are about raking in the fees rather than quality and suitability of the person.