Mother in law situation

Lordy, I thought my mother in law was bad but .....

I would stand up to her. Wish now that I had stood up to mine.

Know what you want to say, be specific and repeat as often as necessary, as calmly as you can.

My late husband had a very effective scenario for dealing with bullying/unpleasantness. He would say, mildly;

"Does it come easily to you, or do you have to work at it?"
The bullier would say "What do you mean"
"Being so very unpleasant/rude/aggressive" (whichever applies). Even more effective in company.

My MIL hated me (she constantly referred to DH's ex-fiancée and even called me by her name!) and made it abundantly clear.

Even when she was dying and I nursed her 24/7 for four months the jibes and viciousness continued- I swear the edges of my tongue were serrated from biting on it!

In the 30 years I knew her I never heard her say a nice word about anyone (and that was as a three times a week churchgoer).

You reap what you sow. If someone is nasty and rude, they cannot expect kindness and warmth in return! If I was in your position, I'd quietly withdraw from contact as much as possible without causing a complete family upset. Easier said than done, I know, but you need to retain your self-respect.

My MiL passed away some time ago but before then, I kept my contact with her to a minimum.
For FiL's retirement, we paid to take them on a holiday to Italy. (Dad served there in the war and wanted to return to say good bye to the pals he'd lost - but that's another story)
My MiL did not like the attention focusing on her husband and every time we were alone she berated him behind his back. I got so fed up with it that one day I had just about had enough and so I gave her both barrels (I'm a red head too and simmer before I explode.)
Now here is the moral to this tale. She was so used to everyone agreeing with her that she had an asthma attack in Italy in the middle of a square - so be warned!
After it was all over my FiL said to me, "I'm not as bad as she makes out, am I. " I felt so sorry for him.
RIP dear MiL.

When ever you visit your daughter in laws (I have 2)you should try to remember that that will do things differently they're from a different generation. I try to be positive and supportive and remember they've given me 4 lovely grandchildren.
Sounds like she is jealous of your relationship with her son. The knife thing is unhygienic and I think I would probably have said something but maybe she will then do things behind your back.
I think you need to have a quiet word with her don't argue in front of your hubby or the grandchildren.
Sounds like holidays with her are not a good idea if she's this hostile,is her husband around perhaps you could have a word with him?

Some good advice here for you Redheadcat and I can't add much as I always got on with my mother in law.Despite being divorced for nearly 30 years,I still get on with her,although she is in her 90's and losing her memory now.
What I don't understand is where your father in law,husband and other family are in all of this.Don't they notice you MiL's behaviour?Won't they support you when she causes arguments?
Personally,I would just stay away from her as much as possible.

It's a very difficult relationship sometimes. My MIL didn't like me one bit. It was because I was shy and unwordly but she saw it as standoffish. My daughter had a terrible relationship with her MIL at first, her MIL ruined her wedding day. However, my DD has been very forgiving and patient and they get along very well now. Some good advice above.

My Mil - acknowledged by all to be a nasty piece of work - started just this kind of behaviour at the beginning of dementia. I said something totally innocuous to her while standing close in the confined space of the kitchen, and she swung round and pushed her face into my 'space' and glared. It seemed very odd, as well as alarming! - but we also had episodes of her doing odd things to seemingly provoke. She may just be a rude and provocative monster, but watch the signs as you may have another condition unravelling.

Unfortunately Brexit has aroused some really deep elemental passions and things have been said that would previously have been thought unsayable or unthinkable. I've been accused of 'stealing our future' and even told I'm 'too old to have a say in the matter'. My pointing out that it was 'your' future I was thinking of, a future not dominated by an unelected foreign bureaucracy, wasn't listened to. The fact that the EU has grown into something we never voted for in 1975 goes over the heads of those who've grown up with it and thought it was a fact of existence. However, with some people the actual issue is irrelevant. I have long observed that no matter what other abilities may be lost over the years, mobility, vision, you name it, the one thing that isn't lost is a nasty vicious tongue and the ability to hurt. They know just where your most sensitive points are and where to aim their arrows!

Maybe she likes to be the centre of attention, and like a child who wants ALL the attention, will.do and say anything to get it. She sounds like she has always got her own way, isn't used to not having all eyes on her. I don't think it's dementia or anything like that, I think she is an attention seeker, and because you don't say anything back, she knows she can say and do anything to you. My advise Redhead Chat, bite back! Tell your husband you are not prepared to take anymore of his mother's nastiness, that you are no longer just going to sit and take it. I had the same kind of behavior from my mum towards my son, yes her grandson, she was vile, told him he was one ugly child, bought things for my daughter but not for him, in the end I told to go , not to visit until she could be nice to both her grandchildren, until she died it was an unpleasant relationship, she was polite with an icy feel, sad .

Keep your distance, but don't burn all your bridges, especially if you're sorry for FiL. If there is something amiss, he's going to need family support. Cutting off one grandparent can end up isolating the other, who is left bearing a burden of care as a difficult partner ages

The knife-licking incident is the most worrying, and may be indicative of some underlying mental problem which is unlikely to improve at her age. If it was me, I'd draw a line in the sand to define "turn the other cheek" territory, but if she crossed it, I'd recalibrate her, politely but firmly. Whatever works for you...

There may have been a difficult relationship, but the knife-licking and angry outburst points towards dementia. Try looking up Fronto-Temporal Dementia and Dementia with Lewy Bodies. Many people are thought to be just being 'difficult' or 'cantankerous' for several years before a diagnosis is made. It might not be this, but worth bearing in mind.

Yes I agree with Nemosmum. How old is this lady ? How does her husband find her ? Also Brexit does evoke very strong feelings. I think you need to step back and not take this personally if possible. It could well be the start of some type of dementia.My brother became very difficult and did things like the knife licking before he was eventually diagnosed.

Redhaircat, only you and your DH know how far you can go in telling your mil to behave.
My mother behaved atrociously towards her dils who were kindness itself to her. She couldn't have done that when Father was alive as he loved them both but died at 62. Her boys, and even her sons in law were perfect in her eyes. My sister's marriage broke up in the 60s and until she died 7 years ago mother was berating her for the break up. I am not sure that it was an age thing, rather that in old age people's true character takes over. Not talking about any kind of dementia obviously.
If anyone stood up to my mother she was quite happy to stop speaking to them or the grandchildren for months so we all had to just put up with it.

My MIL is difficult, cantankerous and getting worse (at 84)! I, on the other hand, am perfect, but still find her trying. I've been with DH for 33 years now. Seriously, she and I fight like cat and dog, but she's the big sister I never had. I love her to bits; we have our differences, mostly because I couldn't be less domesticated, while she likes to be able to eat off her floor. Our main difference is that she still believes that women should cook, wash,iron and clean, while men should repair the car - some doubt about gardening! A bit concerned about your MIL - could be age-related, maybe DH should persuade her to have a medical check-up, could be that she's starting to find aches and pains niggling and she's just taking it out on you. Good luck!

I agree something else could be the problem, maybe dementia. Very difficult situation for you, don't let her get to you anyway.

I have learnt over many years, that the best defence is never to lose your temper and shout back. It's tempting, but quiet cold calmness with a short sharp sentence about self-control may provoke even more shouting from your adversary, but in time, it works and makes the shouter seem slightly foolish!

I thought the very same thing

Redheadcat, many sensible responses here which I hope will help you deal with your MIL's unacceptable behaviour. However, I must protest at your constant reinforcement of the stereotyping of redheads as quick-tempered. It is a facile association that has nothing to do with reality. Redheads have the same range of personality traits as those with different coloured hair. I often think that redheads are their own worst enemies in perpetuating this nonsense. Sorry if I sound harsh but the bullying of redheads in our society is as unacceptable to me as racial abuse and I feel that redheads should not be propagating demonstrably untrue and banal stereotyping.

Thanks to all for your comments. It does help to hear others have faced similar problems. She has always been provocative sometimes and then overly nice the next minute. I have usually ignored but sometimes flare up. I do feel some of the behaviour is now worse and so it may be the beginning of a mental issue. DH is now taking it seriously which is a good thing, in the past he has been very evasive and avoided conflict.
Interesting how Brexit issues have provoked such emotions. Me and DH are the soggy lefties weeping into our lattes but we thought we were pretty self deprecating and avoided bringing up the subject at all costs. MIL however was spooling for a fight (which is when face jabbing incident occurred).Our children (her gcs) now all grown up which might be another reason why things have come up now. At least things were relatively calm when they were young as I bit my tongue so much.
Am now keeping a distance but DH is going to keep an eye on them but in more of a cool manner.

Grumpy old people are the pits, I know, I am one.

Inhibitions diminish with age and dementia can play a part in that and the usual disappointment that one didn't live a different life.

I would wrap the honey jar up and send her the remains for her birthday pr Christmas as she enjoyed it so much.

I have a system, I keep a happy jar, notes to myself about the unexpected good things that happen and a piece of paper in the kitchen drawer with the name of awkward people on, written in pencil, this remind me that we can put people where they can't hurt us and it all fades in time anyway.

Get the happy jar out on a regular basis, its surprising how much good stuff we forget while fretting about old buggers an their knife licking habits.

To be fair to the old girl I don't like my sons partners...or my daughters.........or their dogs /cats / in-laws, must be an age thing.

Moorlikeit - yes I agree about redheads and I was using banal stereotyping. I was bullied myself for having red hair, pale skin etc
I totally retract that red heads have more of a quick temper. I think I was trying to explain away a trait of mine which I'm not proud of.

I think some deep rooted feelings have come to the surface everywhere and in many families, following Brexit - to dismiss this political idiocy as unimportant, shows, I'm afraid, a lack understanding and insight into just how much this has affected people in different ways. It might also be symptomatic of other issues - smaller ones - where a similar lack of insight has been shown. Sorry - not dementia - breakdown of communication - just as much on your part as hers. She clearly becomes aggressive - you may be the passive aggressive one!