Gransnet forums

Relationships

End of tether with mil, need help.

(173 Posts)
Frustrateddil Tue 06-Dec-16 11:19:55

Hello – I’m new and here out of desperation. I’m on the other side of your traditional coin, as it were, and am hoping you’ll have some wisdom or strategy we haven’t considered, as I’m rapidly reaching the end of my tether with my mother in law, and all the daughter-in-law forums I’ve been to recommend we run and never speak to her again, which is a fairly drastic step I’m trying to avoid taking. I also apologise for the length – there is history, but I’ll try to be brief.

To set the scene, my husband is the only child of his parents, and his mum, my MIL, is also the only child of an only child. My MIL’s mother passed away about 6 years ago, so we and her husband are all she has by way of family, which is why we’re trying to avoid cutting her off.

My husband and I have been together for 11 years, married for 4. When I first met his mother, it was immediately apparent we’re very different people – she’s involved in the arts, is very extroverted and outgoing and open with her emotions, whereas I’m science-y, quiet, introverted and hate being the center of attention. Despite this, I was still hopeful we could have a good or at least workable relationship, as I get along brilliantly with his dad and also DH’s university friend who they’ve sort of ‘adopted’ as a pseudo-son.

Things were okish until we got engaged after we’d been together for 5 years (broke students = long engagement). At that point, her behaviour started to spiral. She’d always been a bit overbearing with how much involvement she wanted in our lives, and we did give her jobs and responsibilities with the wedding, but she went from ‘a bit over-excited’ (every conversation she had with us had to be about the wedding, she’d send us long rambling emails full of ideas we didn’t want, would attend wedding fairs without us) to ‘invasive but we could just about cope’ (she sulked and made PA comments for weeks when I said I was buying my wedding dress rather than letting her make me one, she nearly sabotaged our venue negotiations by calling them behind our backs, those long rambling emails became weird entreaties begging for us to change our dates or locations to something cheaper along with lists of things we could better spend the money on – not items that would have been helpful, but things like fresh rosepetals strewn down the aisle and things like that) to finally in the last 6 weeks, totally off the rails.

Due to a mix up with hotel rooms, we had to intervene and swap things around so a disabled guest could actually have a room with disabled access. MIL lost it.. Twelve increasingly hysterical and abusive voicemails, then radio silence for a fortnight, then when DH finally called her, she spent over 3 and a half hours screaming, crying, and wailing down the phone that if DH didn’t give her the control over the hotel rooms back, she and FIL would refuse to attend. Eventually, DH caved, but our opinions of her from that point on were permanently changed.

The wedding itself, the night before we each had family gatherings at separate restaurants. A cousin of DH’s grabbed me the following morning while I was getting ready, to report MIL had gotten drunk and spent the evening badmouthing me and DH about how we were so shameful and disgraceful and thoughtless, etc. Faced with having to confront and eject them from the wedding the day of and my DH not having his parents there, I kept my mouth shut, but having to cope with my blood boiling every time I looked at her didn’t exactly mean my wedding day was happy or relaxed.

After that, she sort of returned to normal for a little bit, and I kind of wrote it off and tried to just swallow the bad feelings – afterall, weddings make people crazy right? I was sure if she hadn’t apologised for her behaviour, it was only because she’d realised how bad it was in hindsight and was thoroughly embarrassed and didn’t want to bring it up.

Unfortunately, the last 18 months have given lie to that, and we’re now faced with how on earth to handle her. The first incident was she had a screaming temper tantrum in a car park at my DH that we should call our son her maiden name – I was not, and had never been pregnant at the time, we weren’t ready to TTC. This was followed up with an email that started out sensible but then became increasingly rambling and incoherent, and centered around the fact we’d double barrelled our surnames and this somehow made her feel left out and then spiralled into weird justifications about how he would always be her baby? DH acknowledged we’d received it, but never replied and never brought it up. He also overheard her saying to mutual acquaintances multiple times that she would have loved to have been more involved in our wedding but she ‘wasn’t allowed’. Blood boil – that was when I finally cracked and told him what she’d said about us the night before the wedding. He was horrified, but didn’t confront her.

God this is long: to the point. We’ve recently had two big things happen; we’ve just bought our first home (yay!) and are finally TTC (double yay!) She obviously knows about one but not the other, and she’s repeating the same behaviour. She got upset and very insulting to DH when we wouldn’t give her a house key to our new home to decorate it without us there, even when he spent 2 hours cajolingly explaining why. And now she’s kicked off a big argument because she has a whole load of her old furniture in storage, and feels we’re ‘insulting her’ by buying our own furniture rather than using what she keeps repeatedly offering. I want – no, I NEED to stop this behaviour NOW, before I get pregnant. Women from my family have dangerous pregnancies anyway, and the added stress she is likely to dump on me if she continues like this (or gets worse; she’s a little baby obsessed) could jeopardise the health of both myself and my child, and if it gets to that, I will cut her off rather than risk that, but I want to avoid it getting that far. So we need to force the issue NOW, rather than let it drag on to that point.

However, any drawing a line…well, the history speaks for itself really, in that it’s her way or the highway (with lots of screaming). When she isn’t acting like this, she is very loving and nice. She obviously adores her son – it’s just that she doesn’t appear to have any grasp of reasonable boundaries or expectations, and we really need to give her some.

So, MILs and grandmothers (and grandfathers, if there are any!) have you been in this situation? Did you and your adult children have to have a sit down and reset expectations? Did it go well? What would have made it go better? Are there any resources or books that I could point her at that might help her manage her expectations? Was there any logic or thoughts you had that led to an ‘Aha!’ moment that you think could be suggested to her? Is there something you think we might have missed that should be considered where we could change how we behave?

Help?

Fairydoll2030 Sat 31-Dec-16 13:46:42

BlueBelle

TTC is Trying To Conceive - I think! No sure about the rest

Jane10 Sat 31-Dec-16 13:50:25

Football fans?! Wonder who they support.

DaphneBroon Sat 31-Dec-16 13:52:03

Aren't they in the US though? Or is that just an impression I have formed from words like "center "?

FarNorth Sat 31-Dec-16 13:58:21

It's true we can only know one side of any situation posted on here. That being the case, anyone who is not content to only know one side should really keep away from the forum.

Even if Frustrateddil is a strong, vociferous woman that wouldn't justify some of her MiL's behaviour (assuming that it's true, as we only know one side etc etc).

If the circumstances are as described, (bearing in mind....., you get the idea) I think the OP's DH has done the right thing. And if his mother won't even try to put things right by taking steps he has asked of her, how much does she really love her son?

DaphneBroon Sat 31-Dec-16 14:20:44

To be fair Far North when you say "anyone who is not content...etc" surely that applies to any post whether a plea, a rant or a request?
I just wonder whether Chinese whispers played a part, starting with a cousin of DH said MIL had gotten drunk and spent the evening bad mouthing me
It seems to have escalated from there including OP's response about wanting to eject her new PILs from the wedding ceremony!
Two strong women, neither prepared to give way and two (perhaps submissive, perhaps wise certainly unfortunate) men caught in the middle.
I just know that if I had received a letter setting out the terms of my relationship with my own adult child it would have done little to smooth relations with her partner!! She may be the MIL from hell, we hear enough about DILs "from hell" and while I pity them I do wonder about faults on both sides.

Wendysue Sat 31-Dec-16 15:27:04

No, DaphneBroon, you didn't miss an announcement. I was just looking ahead to the pregnancy that will, hopefully, happen in the future. Perhaps I was looking too far.

Jalima Sat 31-Dec-16 15:33:42

Farnorth I think this situation can arise with some mothers who are extremely possessive of their sons which gives arise to extreme jealousy. It does take very careful handling on the part of the DIL which doesn't always work out, particularly if the MIL has a narcissistic personality and wants everything to be about her.

However, I would just like to say that the relationship and dynamics between MIL and DIL are very different to the relationship between a grandmother and grandchild. This MIL could turn out to be a very loving grandmother to any future children and it would be a pity if that relationship is not allowed to flourish because of the antagonism between the two women.

Wendysue Sat 31-Dec-16 15:44:28

I'm another one who's on your side, Frustrated, as I hope you've noticed. I think it's wonderful that you've managed to put up with as much as you have from MIL, in the sense that you've tried to be kind and not CO DH's mother. And, like you, I hope it doesn't come to that. But I know you and DH have to do something, and I think he has made a very good start.

It's beautiful, IMO, that DH and MIL share a hobby. However, I'm getting the impression that they are way too enmeshed with each other as a whole. So it must have taken him a lot of courage to do what he did.

I hope MIL makes the apology and follows through by changing her behavior. Meanwhile, once again, wishing you all the best as you try to get pregnant. Best of luck on both counts!

Wendysue Sat 31-Dec-16 15:49:30

P.S. I suspect that some of the other GMs here who are estranged from their AC or have difficult relationships with their AC or DIL/SIL, are identifying with your MIL. But, IMO, they shouldn't cuz she's nothing like most of them - she's way controlling and - what's the word? - toxic. Not true for most MILs here (or anywhere). At least, I hope not.

Of course, as Daphne says, we're not getting both sides of the story. But we never do on boards like these. Same is true when MILs come in here and complain about their DILs or their DSs, etc. That's the one drawback of these kinds of forums. But online, it's the best anyone can do.

Yogagirl Sun 01-Jan-17 10:43:01

Wendysue read the posts, OP has already 'cut out' her m.i.l & f.i.l, the planned Xmas week together was cancelled and 'courage of OP husband needs to read: brainwashed!

I didn't want to post on here and resisted, but then felt compelled to put from the m.i.l side of being cut out of her Son & [future] GC lives. I wanted to defend this woman as I wish I had been defended, so I posted!

Biddit this woman his mother!

Jalima Well said and quite correct in what you said re: grandmothers & grandchildren's relationships being quite different to those with their AC.

Frustrated What a twisted web you weave! Actions speak louder than words. Take it your family are free from being 'cut out' from future GC,that God may bless you with.
Little tip on your future book sales; put a big sub-title on the top of front cover reading recommended for insomniacs then I'm sure you'll do well tchgrin

{tchsmile] "HAPPY NEW YEAR" Ladies tchsmile

[Thanks for PMs]

Yogagirl Sun 01-Jan-17 10:45:46

Good post Daphne

Rosyglow74 Sun 01-Jan-17 14:00:17

Frankly, I'm shocked that anyone would think that this woman should not be cut out of her son's life...at least until she has accepted her awful behaviour and attempted to address it.

I am someone struggling to understand why my daughter-in-law has cut me completely out of my granddaughters life, after previously having a good relationship. My son and I both know that I have done nothing to cause this, and our love for each other hasn't changed thank God. However it's breaking my heart that she can't see that she is destroying their marriage. Consequently I have backed right off, and accepted things as they are, in the hope that they can move forward, and pray that things may change in the future.

If, however, I had done even one tenth of what this woman is reputed to have done, then I would expect to be cut out for good. It is ludicrous to say that no mother should ever "lose" her adult child, despite her totally abusive behaviour. To allow this would be to just continue the cycle of abuse into future generations.

Rosyglow74 Sun 01-Jan-17 14:05:40

"After previously having a good relationship"...with my daughter-in-law. I have never been allowed to have one with my granddaughter.

MonitorMo33 Sun 01-Jan-17 15:03:01

Frustrateddil,

Someone has already mentioned that your MIL may have a personality disorder. I'm not saying that she does, but it might be worth looking at the 'Out of the Fog' website. It provides lots of information on personality disorders and how to deal with certain aspects of behaviour, including abusive behaviour. There's also information on putting healthy boundaries in place, or going 'no contact' if all else has failed.

Main link: outofthefog.website/

Acting out (acting out behaviours, including event and holiday triggers): outofthefog.website/other-articles/2015/12/12/acting-out

Jane10 Sun 01-Jan-17 16:42:18

Interesting Monitormo

MonitorMo33 Sun 01-Jan-17 18:25:02

I think it's a very interesting website, Jane, and everything is well explained. I only came across it a couple of months ago, and found it very informative.

grannypiper Sun 01-Jan-17 19:15:21

Frustrateddil think you have to be very calm and explain to her in no uncertain terms that her behaviour will not be tolerated any moment longer, then leave, no long drawn out examples or explanations, short and to the point and dont look back or open your mouth, just out the door, leave a card inviting her for lunch the following week. It really is that simple, she screams and stamps her feet because she has been allowed to and will continue to do it until she hits a brick wall. Sort it now or she will ruin your life. You can do it, in fact you need to do it brew

grannypiper Sun 01-Jan-17 19:15:58

Dont let anyone make excuses for her !

DaphneBroon Sun 01-Jan-17 22:42:07

I find it strange that any of us here, without knowing the protagonists personally or indeed both sides of this quarrel, can feel confident to give out advice as to what frustrated should, indeed must do. hmm I think even professionals would listen and hear what is going on in a person's head and in their life before offering possible courses of action and going over the potential outcomes.
We can all express opinions based on personal experience, but those must remain just that.

Jane10 Mon 02-Jan-17 09:10:20

Och Daphne I find it strange that you find it strange! All any of us can do is comment or make suggestions based on our own perspectives (including ones formed by our own professional experiences). It's what all the threads contain. I suspect suggestions are made with the best of intentions though we may not agree with them all. Its Gransnet after all not the NHS or the Samaritans!

DaphneBroon Mon 02-Jan-17 10:22:31

It's not the intentions I finally felt the need to query, Jane 10 (but we all know where that road that is paved with them leads...) or even the sincerity but the forcefulness with which some replies have said what must be done. It is always tempting to give advice regarding a course of action whereas in my experience Samaritans are careful not to but by listening, to help the caller to see their own way through a dilemma. As others have said we do not necessarily know the whole story, whether or not there is a mental or physical dimension or whether we are just hearing about two equally fiery temperaments
I suspect it is in the idiom of MN to sound more peremptory (acronyms such as LTB ! in partnership issues ! ) whereas on GN I would hope we are more reflective, and I wonder also if some of the unfamiliar usernames giving frustrateddil such unqualified support might be "visitors" from the "other place".
Hope it has all calmed down now, shall we ever know?

Jane10 Mon 02-Jan-17 11:21:31

Probably not Daphne. One of the perennial problems of internet forums. I'm often left wondering what happened to one poster or other. I was quite stung by Shanma's assertion that we didn't care. I have the feeling that most of the good wishes and helpful advice offered is absolutely genuinely meant. Maybe that's just me though. (Hope not!)

Jalima Mon 02-Jan-17 19:54:41

Frankly, I'm shocked that anyone would think that this woman should not be cut out of her son's life...at least until she has accepted her awful behaviour and attempted to address it
hmm
No-one can cut a person out of someone else's life.
It is up to the son whether or not he wants to do this. He can refuse to speak to his mother about his wife if she becomes abusive about her, he can tell her that her behaviour is out of order but it is not up to the dil to finish their relationship. He could end up resenting his wife and that would be damaging to their relationship.
The poor man should not be forced to take sides between two warring women.
He is an adult and able to make his own decisions.

Faye Mon 02-Jan-17 21:49:18

Two warring women, with respect Jalima I believe you are very wrong there. The MIL's behaviour is is out of control, she in fact screamed and carried on at her son for three hours on the phone and he was too uncomfortable, shall we say, to hang up. It's not fair to say Frusturateddil is part of the problem and is a warring woman. When you are being abused it really sucks to be told you are just as bad as your abuser. The probem lies with the MIL's behaviour and the DH's inability to tell his mother to stop.

Frusturateddil you can cut contact, your DH can do as he pleases, but you should not put up with your MIL's behaviour. Or the other alternative is do as grannypiper suggests.

Yogagirl with the greatest respect, I am sure posters do not think your DD cutting you out of her and your GC's life is in any way because you were like this MIL. There are decent MILs and decent DILs unfortunately they often find themselves with the type of inlaw you have. It's more than likely Frusturateddil's MIL loves only herself and doesn't care who she hurts in her quest to have her own way.

Jalima Mon 02-Jan-17 23:10:47

OK, take the point Faye but some posts are tltr and I was trying to sum up what I thought.
The syndrome of the toxic MIL from Hell is not unknown to me and although some courses of action are tempting I think walking away is often a good option.
And I still believe that the relationship with any future DGC could be entirely different and should not be ruled out before the event.