Cuckoo in the nest?

My son has the same problem although he is not adopted. He is similar age to yours. When they were growing up it was little known and understood. Some of my family were not able to get beyond his behaviour. Still same for some of them. So I don't think that it is necessarily something to do with being adopted/being of a different genetic background.

My heart goes out to your son, although you say he is happy in his work and sounds as if he's found love (second time around) so it seems as if it's all come right in the end I won't go into details but we have ADHD in the family and I first hand know the huge difficulties for everyone concerned especially the child/adult themselves always treated as 'naughty' 'badly behaved' etc when they cannot help their seemingly impulsive, often defiant behaviour and the huge difficulty of the parent/s always taking the flak and being accused of bad parenting etc
It's bloody hard work having ADHD
I m not offering advise except try not to dwell on those who don't understand or don't have too much humanity whilst sitting in their intellectual bubbles Does it bother your son? If the answer is no then you get on with loving him and b..... the rest
Viva the lorry drivers of the world every bit as necessary as the scientists

Have you seen the film Lion doing the rounds at the moment True Story centres around two boys adopted from overseas VERY VERY different personalities and very different outcomes it would interest you greatly I would think, I think Nature plays a bigger part than nurture in many cases

Very best wishes for the wedding enjoy it without the professional snobs if needs be

I was thinking petalmoore that such differences between siblings aren't confined to those who have been adopted. ADHD in one child and a myriad of other issues impacting on character and behaviour are common in families. Your older son sounds to have found his niche, it is very sad that the extended family can't see how hard he has worked to get there and how much he is loved. I know you said you aren't seeking sympathy but I hope it's OK to acknowledge how hard it must have been and still is for you and your husband to coping with unsupportive extended family attitude. Bluebelle asks a very relevant question about your sons reaction. I hope the family aren't upsetting him as an adult. I wonder too if there was disapproval of you adopting children and if there is an element of 'I told you so' going back over many years. In terms of perspective I think that family groups portraying themselves as perfect are often far from. I wonder about the younger ones, cousins maybe. I would hope for a more informed and understanding approach. Where is the kindness? The negativity towards your son must be hard to bear. Your son and his wife to be will make their own choices about who they would like to share their wedding day with. It may be some are surprised to be left off the guest list. I hope you can enjoy the wedding preparations and the day to come and not be troubled by those who would undermine your family in any way.

One of my grandchildren gets similarly, she isn't adopted but her parents split up when she was very young and she was very badly behaved and didn't enjoy or do well at school . I do understand how family members feel she did some awful things when young but even though she is now a Mum and settled they really haven't changed their opinion.
She feels with it by pretending it doesn't affect her although I'm sure it does. I suppose what I'm saying is you can't make people like someone . Not sure if that's any help.

Sorry about the predictive spelling errors. On my phone.

I have little first-hand experience of ADHD but I know some adopted children who have never been quite accepted within the extended family. They are both from abroad and have darker skin than their adoptive parents and I remember them as being delightful, fun, mischievous, bright and lively when they were young – as most children are. I am no longer in touch and they must both be adults now. Some of the older generation who felt uncomfortable with them will have died and perhaps younger ones have a more open and less old-fashioned attitude. Time often does help deal with these sorts of difficulties.

I am sad to hear that your son suffered and was judged pejoratively for something that was not of his making. All credit to you and Mr petalmoore for the love and support that you have given and continue to give. Don't let the opinions of prejudiced or, possibly, even stupid people distress you.

"The family" seem to loom rather large in your life. I know it is important to a lot of people as a kind of institution but if it's causing problems rather than giving support maybe you should loosen the ties a little. Or at least not keep trying to include your son in this group of people who don't really approve of him. Because that's really the problem. Not the life he has, which to most people is a perfectly ordinary good one. Just that your family thinks he should be more like them.
Forgive me but a bit snobby?

Maybe your perception of your son's uneasy relationship with others is not correct petalmoore and its more to do with his problems and behaviour rather than the fact he is adopted .
Having said that I was adopted and my grandparents, Aunt and cousin would have nothing to do with me because I was illegitimate. This was of course in a different era.

Or could it be simply a bit of a heart sink at 'another ' wedding? We tend to feel oh heck at second time rounds.

I was the only GC in my mother's family until I was 16 when my Aunt and Uncle adopted a baby girl. She was lovingly anticipated and welcomed with ever open arms by all the family. Although much younger than me we are great friends and her cousin on her mothers side of her family is her closest and dearest friend.
I think it is your family who have the problem, not you and your son.
I also think that his younger brother is just a very different person as are my two children who have absolutely nothing in common and very seldom meet or communicate.
I like to think they will be there for each other in times of need but honestly don't know.
Just enjoy them for themselves and their differences.

I am adopted, I have never been accepted by my Mothers side of the family, not helped by my Mother not wanting to adopt anyway.
I think the time it really came home to me was when i was 12 and had been a bridesmaid at a cousins wedding,on my Fathers side.
My Mother was in the kitchen with her cousin and I overheard the cousin asking my mother why they had chosen me 'as I was not a real member of the family'. This same cousin threatened to go to court because my mothers sister left me and my DD money in her will and not her children.
Perhaps your son has always felt some family have not treated him as 'family'. perhaps not in an obvious way but just an athmosphere?
Since meeting my birth family I know that I am so like them it is a bit scary at times, not in a bad way I must add.

I would say that since the family has accepted your other adopted son, that adoption isnt really the issue at all.

Oh, petalmore, your heart must often ache for your ods (older dear son) and my heart aches for you.

My first thought about your family (both sides), without having read any other posts, is that, unfortunately, they are class snobs. Sad but probably true.

My second thought is that they probably got a bad impression of ods early on, due to lack of knowledge about ADHD, and that they've never shaken it. Also sad but probably true. I'm so sorry.

Sorry, I mean "petalmoore," not "petalmore."

It doesn't sound as if the adoption was a problem, more that your elder son was seen as more difficult all round and didn't succeed academically ( so what!) He had problems and managed eventually to overcome them and has a useful job in life, and a new marriage to look forward to.
Ignore any worries about this, and if your family say anything they shouldn't about your son remind them that he is your dear son and they should keep any comments to themselves.If they don't actually say anything, but it's more of a feeling that you get from them, just ignore that too.
Nature is, in the end, more important than nurture, but you gave your sons a good upbringing and saved them from a childrens home, which is wonderful.

Now Iv read some of the other replies and think there are a lot of wise comments given.

I'm wondering, petalmoore, if perhaps some of your relatives simply can't deal with ods' short fuse, even if they understand he can't help it.

Did something bad happen at ods' first wedding that might make your sister hesitant to attend the second? Does ods even want some of these people there since they've been so unaccepting of him? By now, he must have some friends, even if just his coworkers. Maybe he would rather just have them. You might want to discuss this with him if possible.

Congratulations to him on his forthcoming marriage! Hope it's a successful one!

Yes,it does sound as if there is a lot going on. Having worked with children all of my working life, I know that some children will always have problems (probably because of some issues with the developing brain when they were very small or even in utero). If you have helped your son to cope with that then you have done very well - and he has a decent steady job, which many kids with ADHD & related issues can't manage.

I think there could be a lot of reasons, and you know best whether it is 'class' (!) prejudice about his condition (my goodness what rubbish I have heard said about ADHD!) or even issues around a second marriage.
On that subject I should say that I realised that DH & I had made a mistake: on retiring we set aside a sum of money to cover what we regarded as 'substantial presents' and gave the first niece to marry a sum of money (which to us was a good amount). Now her second marriage is coming up and I have had to say that there will only be an 'ordinary present' as I have realised we can't afford serial gifts of that substance! I had to explain as I didn't want her to think we were being critical, and she was fine about it.

Back to your issue OP, is there a sympathetic family member you can talk this over with? To be honest, it sounds as if your family have the problem, not you or your sons. I would think carefully about which family members you put your own time and effort into. Having had a lot to do with families in a similar position, I can imagine what you have been through. I do wonder if the comments that make you think him sound like 'good works' are the family trying to tell you what a good job you have done - it is very difficult not to sound patronising!

As for 'small talk' there is a family member by marriage who I find almost impossible to talk to as he is not naturally chatty. He is a car mechanic and his serious hobby is boxing. I find myself telling him what is wrong with my car and then saying 'Manny Pacchiau' and 'Klitchko brothers' in a vaguely random way (haven't a clue about spelling!). The best I did was when I told him I had nursed one of Mohammed Ali's sparring partners, and then got tongue-tied because I didn't want to rabbit about boxing-related dementia! However, I do think that HGV drivers I have met are interesting to talk to.

I knew sharing this issue here would be helpful! Thank you so much for your thoughts - they have helped me see things in perspective and to tease out a clearer picture. Felice's contribution, from the point of view of an adopted person who has not felt fully accepted, sums up what the older son has said to me about his feelings that he isn't somehow as god s as other people. And it saddens me when his intense attachment to his adopted family is not recognised, most particularly one of my sisters, who lives just round the corner from us. She doesn't spontaneously ask after him, and if I volunteer news of him, she doesn't express more than polite attention. I have more than once had to explain to him when he visits us, that my sister is 'too busy' to pop in and see him, or for him to go there. And she is not at all interested in what we have learnt from our son about his life on the road. But then, she is like that with everyone, and has openly said that she doesn't see the point of maintaining relationships with 'needy people', manly because they make her feel uncomfortable. You have all helped me to disentangle how much of my pain at this situation is due to my own relationship with her - she is younger than me, but much bossier (!) and we have very different ways of handling life situations.

Jayanna2040's observation that I seem very involved with 'family' is true - I was brought up as a child to see 'our family' as very special and it took me quite a while to believe what I knew intellectually: that they were just people, like any other, with all their idiosyncrasies and quirks as well as their common humanity. But what brought the issue back to my mind in the last few days was not only my sister's response to the news of our son's impending second marriage, but also a big family celebration, on my husband's side, of his mother's 100th birthday. His family are all quite private and undemonstrative people, and don't go in for informal chats, communicating only if there are arrangements to make, or on specific occasions such as birthdays, when A Card Will Be Sent. Conversations with them tend to be in question and answer format, about, for instance, how people are or what new job one of the nieces or nephews has. I sometimes feel they converse according to the rules of Just a Minute, with no repetition, hesitation or deviation. And definitely no spontaneous interruptions. This family has always scrupulously treated our older son as a member of the family, but are the ones where more often refer to him in a way that suggest that they view him as a project that we have nobly taken on, and not quite as a real person. I have heard people engage him in conversation in the way that the Queen might attempt with someone on whom she has just conferred an MBE. But I'm sure I have been over sensitive to nuances that probably aren't there when, for example, my husband's eldest brother said, when we told him about the impending wedding, 'I hope you're pleased about it', rather than beginning by saying 'What good news!'

Thank you all again - it's not always easy to rely when one is mistaking one's own pessimistic gloss on a situation with the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. We each have our own reality and you've helped me toward a more multi-faceted view.

And thanks for your support for lorry drivers everywhere!

Oh dear, all those typos and that perennially intrusive and misleading predictive text! I used to be a champion speller, which did me no favours with my school friends, but peripheral neuropathy gets in the way of perfection these days ...

In para 1, I meant to say 'his feelings that he is not as good as other people' (I'd also meant to add that he has at times explicitly said that he felt unworthy of us - luckily that phase is in the past now).

In second paragraph 'But [they] are the ones WHO more often refer to him ...', not 'where'

and in the last, 'realise' rather than 'rely'.

Happy Easter, everyone!

petalmoore One of my DN is an HGV driver (and very sought after and well respected I might add!) with two high-achieving siblings.
None are adopted but it never occurred to any of us to be superior about him, we love him just the same.
He was my first-born nephew and will always have a special place in my heart.

I think your family are wrong and very unkind.

You chose these children which is a very privileged thing to be able to do.

Eddie Stobart was much admired.

And where did the name 'Downton' come from?

HISTORY

C M Downton Ltd was formed in 1955 when Conrad Michael Downton, the owner of a small Gloucestershire farm, invested in a gravel-carrying tipper lorry and began moving small loads around the county to supplement the modest income from the farm.

I was intrigued so I looked it up!

Ha ha petalmoore, you stirred a few memories for me here. My MIL came from the upper crust and always looked on me as a (failed) project. Her best compliment to me was "I will say this, you do breed well,"
They do have a rather a rather formal, set pattern to conversation that I found odd. But they found my inability to stick to the "script" very disconcerting. Perhaps your son says the unexpected too!