Latst attempt

Just a thought - maybe taking them Christmas shopping is a bit of a big ask, given the strained circumstances. I am not sure that I would ask this of my DDs - I see their Christmas rituals as being their own and not for me to encroach.

We get on fine with our DDs and GC, but even so I would not ask this. I just feel that they want to make their own special Christmases, just as we did when ours were little.

Perhaps find a smaller ask?

PS Blooming Christmas - it comes with so many expectations that are hard to meet.

I was sorry to read your post Lindylou it's terrible when a mother feels the need to write a begging letter to her daughter just to be able to spend some time with her GC.

We've been estranged from our son for 5 years. We have 2 GC, the eldest nearly 6 we haven't seen since he was 8 months old and the youngest who'll be 2 in just over a week, we've never seen.

It's impossible to understand why any adult child would wish to use their own children in this way, and cause so much pain and distress to their parents.

I hope you letter does some good and even if you can't take your GC Christmas shopping and out for lunch, you'll be able to see them.

Lindy, my heart goes out to you! It must hurt terribly to have your dd keep you and dh at arm's length this way.

As you can see from Smileless' post, you are not alone in this predicament. I don't agree, though, that the letter would necessarily be a "begging" one. If you keep it short & sweet and just invite them to go Christmas shopping with you, imo, it will just be a "request." However, given the strained relations, like Luckygirl, I doubt dd will accept the invitation.

And your relationship clearly is strained. You used the word, yourself, at one point. Any idea why? Anything she has complained or argued about in the past? Any issues between you and her dh? If you can get to the root of this, you may be able to begin to fix it.

Lindylou
You need to come and join us on the below thread:
Support for grans cut out of the lives of their AC&GC lives

Heart breaking story Inside the cards is written to Mr&Mrs??

I think it's a wonderful idea to take your GC Xmas shopping, I'm sure they'd love it & why not! Maybe if you invite your D to join you, she'd be more up for it, perhaps she feels left out, or did the invite include her? How old are your GC?

Like Smileless I haven't seen my D & beloved GC for 5yrs. I had a very special bond with my GD & [I thought] D, as they lived with me before my GD's stepdad came along. I also loved my GS with all of my heart too. I was very good to them all as a family, but still got 'cut out'.

I sent my GC a letter from Father Xmas, they even complained about that. You had to put an age range for the C and as the GC were 18mnths & 30mnths I put 2yrs, which is right between the ages, but nasty s.i.l managed to turn this on it's head deeming the card was aimed at GD & not his son, he couldn't see it was between their ages exactly I also asked my D if the GC would like to go and see Father Xmas at Altons garden centre, which is a really lovely place, you have to book and pay, not cheap, and I said we could all have a nice lunch after together, her included of course, she said she thought they were too young! For sure s.i.l in-put on the refusal. This was just before the big CO!

I wish you luck LindyLou xx

Oh. sorry, Lindy, I should have said, "I doubt dd will let your dgds go with you," not, "I doubt dd will accept your invitation." For some reason, I thought you were inviting both the girls AND her. And I thought she would turn that down due to the strain between the adults.

Now, rereading, I see you just want to take your dgds. But I still think she'll say no. If she barely allows you to speak to them, I doubt she'll be willing to send them off shopping with you. You can ask, but I don't think you'll get a positive reply.

I'm not sure what the problem is with "Mrs. & Mr." If it's on the envelope, isn't the formal address the norm? Are you and dh upset because she puts "Mrs." first? Does it reflect some issue she has with him?

Or do you mean that's what she puts inside the cards, themselves, as Yogagirl says? I can see why that would be hurtful. It suggests she doesn't feel close to you anymore. Maybe she doesn't. Maybe that's the message she's trying to send. So harsh! I'm so sorry. What could have alienated her like this?

You don't say how old your grandchildren are - are they very young or old enough to have their own opinions? If they've over 10 which your post suggests then I'm sure they'd love the shopping trip. It may be that your daughter is worried that as they've not really spent any time with you they don't know you well enough - how far away do they live? Whatever the reason its very sad - could you maybe arrange a meal at a shopping centre and all meet up so that your daughter can bring them and go shopping too?

I do know the problems as my own DIL has not spoken to her mother for 16 years - she's never met my youngest GD who is 16 next week or been involved in either her or her elder sister's lives. I know the fault lies with her mother who did some terrible things but just occasionally I wonder how she feels about her estranged family - she has another daughter she is close to but the two sisters don't talk either. Awful situation for families like this.

I hope you manage to have the chance to take your grandchildren out.

What a pity that much loved grandchildren cannot spend time with their grandparents. A simple shopping trip is out of the question. What do the parents think might happen to their children if they do spend a couple of hours with gp. it's all about control and manipulation.. Are these parents scared of the bond that will develop with loved gc.? I think that's at the root of it. It sounds like the problems I had. More and more restrictions put upon contact, nothing you do ever right, constant put downs with out any explanation of why. In my case just a reason to push you to the limits that you can't take any more, so you finally sever contact. Why should you take that from someone you lovingly raised and put first. Plus the gc get upset by the friction. I was a confident person, I had had good jobs that carried a lot of responsibility, I became ground down and felt bullied and my self confidence reduced to nothing, reduced to tears. I could never go back to that. No one that has a normal loving relationship can ever understand why this happens, I still don't to this day. But my heart goes out to all of you that are going through it. I have bad days, but nothing as bad as it used to be.

It is so sad to read posts like this. Makes me appreciate that I can see my grandchildren anytime.

?

It is so sad that so many families are estranged. I am very unhappy to see that so many DGC are used as pawns to control grandparents. That surely is not right at best and abuse at worst.

It is indeed sad.

Something must have triggered these battles - they do not emerge from nowhere. I cannot help thinking it relates to crossed wires about the expectations on both sides, and then something triggers a confrontation and there seems to be no way back.

I feel sad for everyone in this situation - on both sides of the divide.

But, as to OP, I do still think that the way forward lies in small steps rather than asking for bigger things - and I would see taking them Xmas shopping as quite a big thing. I know that in an ideal world this would not be a problem, but your world is not ideal at present in relation to your family (whose is?) and it is important that they do not see you as asking for something like this in order to lay down a challenge. What they need above all else is some conciliatory message from you; some statement that you are willing to listen to their side of this battle.

I am not criticising you, but just trying to say that the path through this (if there is one to be found) lies in hearing their problem. It is such a sad situation for you.

Luckygirl There doesn't have to be any crossed wires or confrontations to get cut out, just your AC partner's dislike/ jealousy of you, that's all it takes, coupled with brainwashing your AC to cut you out for no reason, along with the rest of her/his birth family!

It didn't realise the Mr&Mrs was turned the wrong way Lindylou, yes very odd! My nasty s.i.l did a similar thing, he would put his 18mnth old son's name [my dear GS] before my dear GD's [his stepD] even though she is the oldest, in cards & letters etc. Does everyone agree with me that the eldest C's name comes first on these things??

I feel that attaching meaning to order of Mr/Mrs or children's names is OTT here - not everyone would follow any convention, I think that is finding issues where none may exist..

How very sad Lindylou. It is a horrible situation to be in and I feel for you.

However, your daughter isn't nice, or thoughtful, or kind. She is mean and controlling.

For her not to enquire after her Dad during his treatment shows she is heartless, or has an agenda.

Was there ever a huge falling out that hasn't been resolved I wonder? It sounds as if you are doing your best to keep alive a relationship which has died. It's died because she wants it to and has no time for her parents.

I am sorry if that sounds harsh because I really sympathise with you. Your GC are growing up without you in their lives.

If I were in that situation I think I'd have to accept it because you are being played - kept on a string like a dog but confined to kennels without a morsel of kindness coming your way.

I'd want to put a stop to that scenario. I'd keep my distance and try as best I could to live my life without this cold daughter in it. Your grandchildren are her children and you cannot make her share them with you unfortunately.

Perhaps back off and get on with living and making the most of your time with DH even though I imagine that would hurt you very much. The game she is playing now is hurting you though and as long as you make all the running she remains in the driving seat, keeping you in your place.

Sometimes bullies and game players need their victims to stop caring or bothering. She and her children will lose out on family love and it seems so unfair but how long can you keep making overtures which she rejects?

I do hope she softens her heart, and soon.

Yoga girl I'm sorry to say it but from reading your posts I think it's clear that you preferred your eldest grand daughter to your youngest grand son.. if you made it so vehemently clear to your daughter then I feel this could well have been the cause of the major problems between you... them putting the youngest child's name first was maybe them showing their frustration with the situation.
I know that your eldest grandchild didn't have a dad around and so you was heavily involved with her care but imho there is never a justification for treating children differently. The way you talk about your sil and his family cant have helped eother can it.
The Mr & Mrs thing is absolutely the OP making an issue out of nothing.. I didn't even realise there was an official order - we're not in 1950 now and men and women are equals.

Bugsy, the op didn't say the order of the titles was an issue. She didn't say what bothered her about that. Just that it did.

Sugarpuff.. is it the case that est children are using grandchildren as pawns or is it that some grandparents feel superiority and that they can say/do anything they so wish and still be 'entitled' to see grandchildren..? Not saying this happened with OP but some of the stories I read on here certainly make me come to the conclusion that it's the grandparent that has been manipulative.
Starlady your right - it was somebody else that mentioned the 'mrs & Mr' thing.. I stand corrected... maybe there was a different reason that rhis bothered het - i cant fathom what that may be.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sorry to hear your probs &Sugarpuff* xx

Bugys The way I talk about my s.i.l & his mother is AFTER the cut out. I had no probs with him or his mother, didn't know they had a prob with me till then. And yes I cannot lie, I hate them, now. They destroyed my family, they brainwashed my once lovely D, and I cannot believe she is happy with what she's done, she has no one in her life to turn to when he & his mother turn on her. When this first happened, I believe, planned when my niceD & I were on holiday together [they were invited] My estD & her H had a big argument [this is were my cut out stems from] she ran out with the C in a double buggy, it torrential rained, so she phoned him to pick her up, he refused, she said things she shouldn't have & his mother got her picked up by the police and put in a mental hospital. When assessed to have just the 'baby blues' they phone her H to have her released into his care & he said NO! I don't want her back All this time he was phoning me every half hour & I was bigging him up, saying he was a good dad & husband^ believing his lies about my poor incarcerated D, they had had her sectioned, so could only be released into someone's care! I of course came home & after this learnt the truth nature of my D's H.
She curled up with me like a baby, really traumatized. I made the mistake of mediating between them, saying to him that it's the mother that keeps the home & C if they break up, with that he took my D back & cut me out!

vehemently !? strange use of word!? It was only after, when accused of favouritism, I had to admit I did have a very special bond with my GD, but still loved & adored my GS just the same, always treating them the same. To be honest, it was my D that didn't bond with her Son, didn't want to hold him when he was born. This scenario was turned onto me, I just couldn't understand why they would say such a thing, until the penny dropped. There were many more incidence like this to follow, where nasty s.i.l would turn a situation from one person onto another, usual me, he just lied continually, which is a well know trait of 'pot' smokers & cocaine sniffers.

Sugarpufffairy, I remember my mother saying she would never visit unless invited, I also remember my sil saying how sad she was my mother never just dropped in! It’s a tricky one.

Lindy I do hope things turn out well for you and you get to see your DGCs for your shopping trip,I cannot understand the actions of parents keeping their little ones away from Grandparents.
I am very lucky as I am included in everything my DGCs do even down to having my own scan picture of new baby due to DGS2 in April they ask my opinion on most things and keep in touch on a regular basis I am blessed having such a thoughtful family.

My nasty s.i.l had to have someone to hate; first my D, then me, before us, his girlfriend, that he had just broke up with before getting with my D. This poor girl had to prise him out of her flat, having come home from a hard days work as a bank manager, on numerous accession to find him canudaling with yet another girl on their settee!
His mother delighted showing me all the paper work were she was helping her son [nasty s.i.l] to weedel out of paying all the debts he'd built up whilst living in her flat! This ex girlfriend was only ever referred to as the 'fat cow' by both him & his mothers. I did think 'oh dear, poor girl' but being a new relationship, said nothing, if only I'd taken on board these warning signs! My D would say ^ while their calling her fat, they won't look me^