Latst attempt

You are for sure blessed Glammanana xx

Sorry for banging on, but this just bought it all back in my head, especially as the 5yr anniversary of being 'cut out' is in 5 days time & my estD's Birthday a week later

You post is right Day6 we have not had a falling out, we were very close to DGDS for a number of years but slowly she has withdrawn from the family. She seems to want to get a reaction from me, which I do not respond to that was why I mentioned re Mrs Mr on envelope the girls are 11 and 9.
They have always loved staying with us DD would ring and say they had a great time.

I have found that the most major problems with my DCs started when my second husband, father of the youngest DC re-appeared very conveniently after the 18th birthday and so would no longer be liable for Child Support, not that he ever paid any. He is known to be a twisted lying piece of crap, his previous occupation is one which typifies con artist, think Arthur Daly etc.
My DCs have seen all the accusations he made about me and the lies he told about all sorts of things and they know that I overcame all that rubbish. They know that he was refused access to any of the children. My DCs have children and should be protecting them from this man rather than listening to him. He has not only put a wedge between my children and me he has them not talking to each other too and they still can not see it. His own family did not want him and moved 100s of miles away from him. These DCs who listen to husbands and fathers before the mothers who did all need to wise up.
I consider myself to be peaceful now away from all the fighting drama and bitching.

Bravo Sugerpuff Your exH sounds like mine, he never paid maintenance either, had nothing to do with our C after the first year he left us. My now estranged D was just 3yrs when he left, yet he was brought in to crucify me via emails, by nasty s.i.l, till I warned him of calling the police in, it got that bad, and the emails were sent round robin, to our, & nasty s.i.l's, entire family!

Lindylou

"...we have not had a falling out..."

But perhaps there have been ongoing disagreements? And dd might be trying to cut back on them by lowering contact?

This sounds like vlc to me - "very low contact" - only seeing you once a year (ot maybe twice - year isn't over yet), only letting you speak to your dgds on their birthdays, sending cards but limiting other contact.

"I told her her DH having a stent put in and we have not heard from her to ask how he is, which has hurt me very much "

Having looked over at Mumsnet, from time to time, Iv seen people who've gone nc say they won't resume contact even if their ep becomes ill. And Iv seen members there advise others to take the same attitude. It may be part of the nc "formula." Idk if it applies to lc or vlc, too, but maybe. Dd might simply have been following a formula ("allow contact on such & such occasions and that's that") when she ignored dh's surgery. But I know that probably doesn't make it any easier to bear.

Yoga girl.. I see there is more to your story then I've read before and I have seen lots of your posts... If this is genuinely a case of your sil emotionally abusing your daughter then it's a different scenario entirely. However, you seem to hate him so much that I imagine everything he has said/done in the past will be twisted by you and seen in a negative light.. they are still together after all.

I honestly do think that your clearly different bonds with your grandchildren may have caused a huge problem for your your daughter's family - I suspect that privately you know this to be the case.

I hope you can heal from this estrangement.. and from losing contact with your son too - it must now be genuinely very sad for you, especially with anniversarys approaching. If you do get the chance to meet up with your children and/or grandchildren again you would really have to let go of all that anger.

"If this is genuinely a case of your sil emotionally abusing your daughter then it's a different scenario entirely....they are still together after all". If Yogagirl's ED is being emotionally abused by her husband, it stands to reason they are still together bugsy.

In abusive relationships, emotional and/or physical, one of the first things the abuser does is to alienate their 'victim' from her/his family and friends. To keep them away from anyone who may have sufficient influence to help their 'victim' recognise that they are in an abusive relationship or at best an unhealthy one. This then keeps them emotionally and in some cases financially dependent on them.

This is what Yogagirl's sil has done and what we believe has happened with our ES. He still has contact with his brother but as he lives on the other side of the world, will not be considered a threat by our ES's wife.

The gradual erosion of the relationship between and AC and their parents by the AC's husband, wife or partner by telling lies and making false allegations is an example of emotional abuse. Giving an 'it's them or me and your children' ultimatum is also emotional abuse.

Yogagirl doesn't have different bonds with her GC. She had a bond with the eldest before the estrangement and because of the estrangement has never had the opportunity to bond with the other. The relationship she had with her first GC was established before her ED had met and married her husband. Her "different bonds" haven't caused huge problems for her ED's family, her ED's husband and his family have prevented her from continuing her relationship with her eldest GC and from ever having a relationship with the youngest.

Yogagirl doesn't have to twist everything her s.i.l. has said or done in the past to for him to be seen in a negative light; his actions speak for themselves.

Lindylou.

You may be well right Starlady and Lindylou's D is following a formula all be it a very cruel and vindictive one. Gradually severing all physical contact between her children and their GP's, allowing only 'phone calls on their birthdays even though she knew how much they enjoyed spending time with their GP's.

What you've seen on mum's net doesn't surprise me in the slightest. I've heard that there are web sites advising AC what to do in order to 'go non contact'.

Smileless Well said, couldn't have put it better myself. Thank you Just not possible to make someone outside of estrangement understand and especially someone that's not a Grandmother. When they become a Grandmother themselves, it will be a 'light bulb' moment and I think they will be mortified at what they have done, not just to their loving parents, but to their children too. These children will grow up and learn the truth for themselves!

Bugys It wasn't me who had a different bond with my GC, but my nasty s.i.l & his mother! I loved my GS with all of my heart & soul & he loved me back. When my GS was born, s.i.l's mother was going around saying Ooh our first grandchild, our first GC in front of my GD! Where as for me, they are both my grandchildren! I was really taken aback when I was accused of favouring my GD over my GS and I certainly was never aware of showing or doing anything to warrant this. The only person that can say I don't love my GS with all of my heart is ME, and I DO!

My ND, who lasted a few weeks more in their lives, told me she was always really careful when she went to visit, to make sure she made a big fuss of J [GS], even though we always did anyway, because she knew she was being watched and judged. Some days L [GD] wouldn't be there, on a visit to s.i.l's mothers or such like, my ND felt again, she was being tested! So whereas my ND & I loved both C, the same couldn't be said for my estD in-laws!

Footnote to saying AC will be mortified at what they have done; especially when their children, who have been taught to 'cut out' loving parents when they are married with C themselves, do the same to them. After all, they grew up with this being what you 'do' and it's OK to do it!

Yogagirlthere's an awful lot of miss understanding surrounding estrangement and I can understand that. I'm sure I'd have thought that parents who've been cut out must have done something wrong to be treated in this way.

Indeed there are cases where due to an abusive relationship with their parents AC have no choice but to CO their parents to protect themselves and their children, but as we know only too well, that isn't necessarily the case.

isn't referred too as the green eyed monster for nothing. Jealousy is a very dangerous and corrosive emotion. It destroys lives and relationships. We have fought tooth and nail not to allow our ES's wife's jealousy to destroy our lives but she's destroyed our relationship with our son and our only GC.

Mr. S. and I are fortunate to have come as far as we have but there are some who are not so fortunate. For some life without the AC who has cut them out is too hard to contemplate so they end their lives.

The pain of estrangement should never be under estimated, nor should the terrible example that these AC are setting for their own children.

I'm reminded of a post you made some time ago on the estrangement thread. A story of a little girl, looking at old photographs and seeing her GP's. Not knowing who they were because she'd never met them, she asked her mother who told her they were her parents but she'd never allowed her to see them. She then tells her mum that when she grows up she wants to be just like her.

I wonder how many AC who've abandoned their parents will one day be abandoned by their own children, because they wanted to be just like their parents.

Thank you .i have 2 step granddaughters and 2 grandsons a great grands9n and great granddaughter whom I had a lovely relationship with

Another excellent post Smileless and the end to that story is;
The little girls stayed in her bedroom so long, the Mother came up to see what she was doing, she opened the door to her bedroom, to fine her Daughter sobbing her heart out, when asked 'what on earth is the matter?' the little girl replied; ' When I grow up and get married and have children of my own, I won't see you anymore!' The Mother was very quiet for the rest of the week!

Bugsy Re the angry;

Mahatama Gandhi said to his Grandson Arun;

Anger is good, It is an energy that compels us to define what is right and wrong!

Gosh I'd forgotten how it ended Yogagirl.