Generational relationships

People's circumstances are different. I know someone whose material circumstances were good in childhood but who (with her siblings)suffered a lot of emotional neglect and abuse from her mother and father. She and her sisters still tried to do their best for both parents in old age; but following dementia and assessments of 'elderly/severely mentally infirm', residential care was the only option. The father died soon after, and a couple of years later my friend was told not to visit any more by the manager of the home as the mother no longer recognised her. The mother would get very upset and agitated as she thought her daughter was a stranger who was entering her room without permission with the intention of stealing her things. My friend continued to keep a close eye on how her mother was being looked after - is that abandonment?

Agree with Norah.

The thing with dementia is it can last along time, my relative has had it for about 5 years, now she is being well fed she could still be going strong ten or even 20 years from now as physically she has no problems at all. I would probably have been dead before her if we hadn't got her into the home, I still might be. Remember most of us struggling with this are getting on ourselves, I'm mid 60s and have been a carer for my disabled husband for 25 years.

I don’t know 123flump and I don’t recall what happened. it seemed awful at the time but it was thirty-odd years ago and I had no idea what growing old could be like back then.

mollie it has been a steep learning curve for me. My mother died of cancer and it was awful but to be honest dementia is like torture. The totally crazy thing was that my relative is self funding, all I needed was a bit of support to get her in somewhere, which she didn't want, and to ensure they could keep her safe. Instead the police, ambulance service and social services had months of hassle, as did I. Her neighbours were fed up, she was banned from local shops.

A young social worker just accepted her saying she was fine, GP was the same. "She says she's OK." In the end I said I was going to revoke the LPA, change my phone number, I was spending 2 or 3 hrs a day on the phone dealing with problems or listening to her cry. It would then be their problem and I would report it as a safeguarding alert. I wish I had done it sooner, they appointed an experienced social worker who could immediately see the problem.

I honestly don't condone people abandoning granny in hospital but I do know you can be driven to a desperate point.

I didn’t raise my children to feel they were obliged to take care of me or their dad.
My mum always said when I get old and cannot cope put me in a nursing home. She never got to be very old.

Sheilasue the trouble is with dementia they don't understand they are ill and vulnerable, well my relative didn't anyway. So she wouldn't go in a home until she had no choice.

My dad died young, my mum was ill for a relatively short time but was as sharp as a tack till the end. The thought of getting dementia scares me as nothing else does.

is that abandonment? yes Cassandra* it is. How on earth can a manger tell a D not to visit {confused] that's outrages!

My dear mum suffered from dementia for 6yrs, two years she stayed at home with my dad, her husband of 65yrs, then she had to go into a care home, so very sad! I had a busy life with 3C, 4SC, but I visited my mum most days, either on the way to work or on return. I loved my mum dearly and would never ever have abandoned her in her greatest hour of need! Or my dad.

All families and their relationship with each are clearly different some very caring and others not so.
When my own dear mother developed cancer my youngest child had just started school, I worked part time but when life became difficult for her we moved her into our home. We cared for her for 18 months before she died. I was happy to have my mother with us in her final year and I feel sure she was glad to be with us.
Our daughter now an adult with her own child always says jokingly we have to be nice to her because she will be the one to choose our nursing home.
My husband and his sister also were there for his mother and elderly aunt when they were in their later years.
Family is everything to me and my husband I can't imagine life without them.

No it isn't abandonment, continuing to visit if it distressed her would be cruel. The daughter kept in touch with the home, knew what was happening. In my opinion insisting on visiting would be selfish and cruel.

Before my relative went into the home I had a similar dilemma as my visits would set her off but then it made little difference as she was upset all the time so I continued even though it was distressing for me. If it had made her condition worse then what would be the point.

I am lucky in that she is in a wonderful home, I visit as do some old friends but due to their age they can't visit often but they write and send cards. My children also visit and see my GC cheers her up even though she can't really work out who they are, I think it is not unlike when one of the carers takes their dog to work and she likes stroking the dog. Hope my GC wouldn't be too upset about being compared to a dog.

The trouble with dementia is it varies so much, one sufferer might be sitting happily in a comfy chair, not remembering much but happy enough. For my relative it is a living nightmare and she needs constant reassurance as she hallucinates and is often terrified. I would in no way add to her distress.

is that abandonment? yes Cassandra* it is. How on earth can a manger tell a D not to visit {confused] that's outrages!
yogagirl how can you possibly know enough about Cassandra’s friend’s mother to make such a hysterical and judgemental comment?
It’s extremely distressing for relatives when dementia sufferers no longer recognise them, or become upset or violent when they visit.
The last thing relatives in those situations is a complete stranger like you accusing them of abandoning their loved one.

In those situations need

Jeanie99 Very well done you, you sound like a lovely kind hearted person, your mother was very lucky to have you as a daughter and your H&D sound just as nice. xx

Read the posts janeainsworth Cassandra was talking about someone else's mother, not her own and I spoke of the manager of the home, not the daughter.

123flump your right about those suffering with dementia being different, my mother was as sweet and gentle as she had always been and seemed quite happy. She couldn't speak sadly, but as I visited most days she def still knew me and her face would light up when I arrived. Who is the relative Fluff you never say, an auntie perhaps?

My mum was at the home for 4yrs and in that time I made friends with another family that visited regularly [still friends today, 8yrs on] Their father had Alzheimer's disease and was quite different to my dear mum, he could at times be difficult and a bit violent, but they loved him so, and would never dream of abandoning him. There was another lady that lived in the home, I didn't know her or her family that visited, but she was destructive when ever she entered the room and her family had great trouble trying to control her, I felt very sorry for them as they were trying their best with her and obviously still loved her, disputed her impossible behaviour.

I have always thought that with Dementia the person is gentle and quite child like, whereas with Alzheimer's they are aggressive and not too pleasant at times. But I don't know if I'm correct in saying that, just going by the people I have seen with the two different diseases. I know they both come under the same umbrella of brain disease, and in each category one can be quite different to the other, all individual .

Yogagirl, it is a sort of aunt but not by blood, parents step sister but an aunt to me as a child.

No you are wrong about dementia, this is what she has and she is violent, aggressive, terrified of hallucinations, sexually disinhibited (to the point where male carers can't work with her as they are at risk) and incredibly sad. It is a living nightmare and as far as you can possibly imagine from gentle and child like.

I have done my best with her for years and it is such a relief that she is somewhere safe. I visit regularly but if the manager told me my visits were adding to her distress I would stop the visits, her life is awful enough and I would never do anything to make it worse. I think it would be very selfish of me to insist on visiting her if it made her unhappy.

So very sorry Flump very difficult situation and awful to hear how your step-aunt acts. Being your step-aunt makes a difference to how much you can deal with such behaviour, your aunt is very lucky that you have tried to help as much as you have, well done Maybe different medication would help, it's amazing what a little pill can do to the body & mind. Good luck xx

I'm not sure what you mean about being my step aunt makes a difference to how much I can deal with her behaviour? I have a lasting power of attorney so legally I am the person who makes decisions, she hasn't got any other family.

Medication doesn't make a difference, GP and psychiatrist and now the home's doctor have tried everything and some make her worse, unless they gave her something to make her a zombie and fortunately the home aren't like that.

To be honest I would advise people to be very cautious about agreeing to have the LPA, it is a difficult thing if dementia effects people like it does her. I couldn't even count the number of nasty phone calls I used to get from people who she had told I was going to have her locked up so I could have her money. Yes that's why I got her into an expensive home that is rocketing through her savings.

yoga Maybe different medication would help, it's amazing what a little pill can do to the body & mind do you have the slightest idea of how crass that suggestion is?

flump that must be so difficult.

Since 1988, when my mother died, I have felt tremendous guilt that I didn't do more for her. She'd had a tough life, but never me me feel she had any expectations of me. Now I realise how selfish I was it has made me believe I should have no expectations of my own children. Should we have any expectations of our children: after all, they didn't ask to be born.

Janeainsworth No doubt I didn't word that correctly, but I'm just going by my little dog, she had a problem with a weak bladder, well she is 98yrs old. My vet gave her a tiny little white pill and no more problem, amazing, same with her arthritis in her back legs, after a neighbour living in a bungalow looked after her for a week, she came home and then couldn't get up my stairs and I had to carry her up for 6mnths, till I discovered glucosamine easy treats, after just 3 days she was running up the stairs like a race horse. So that's what I mean by a little pill can do wonders.

What an insensitive and crass comparison!
If only the administration of a little pill could ease such distress .
Wonder why doctors aren't already doing this if it's so simple!

mcem I know only too well it is not simple, 6yrs of caring for my dear mother taught me that. An animals body works near on the same as ours, especially a dogs, and that has taught me the wonders of the right medication, and with my mother & her fellow home mates, the dangers of the wrong medication too!

Some vets give human mediation to our pets, as they work better and are a fraction of the price.

Good grief yogagirl.
You really think your dog’s arthritis can be compared to the ravages and cruelty of dementia?
Have you really no idea how distressing your post must be to those gransnetters caring for loved ones with this condition?
As mcem says, if there was any effective treatment for Alzheimer’s or vascular dementia, doctors would be using it already.
I can’t decide if you’re vindictive or stupid or both.

I wish there was a magic tablet. Aricept slows things down for some but was no use. Antipsychotics aren't recommended but were eventually tried in the hope they would help with the hallucinations but again no good.

As I said the effects vary but all involve "losing" the loved one sometimes to be replaced by a placid, happy childlike person and at the other end of the spectrum you get a violent, aggressive and very unhappy person. Neither is ideal but if I get it I hope I get the first version.

Good post Flump

They now do have a tablet that slows the destruction of dementia & Alzheimer's, sadly much too late for my dear mum However other tablets can be used to help both conditioners, helping the sufferer lead a more normal & pleasant life and that in turn helps the AC carer and all the family.