Should we interfere?

Definitely sounds odd to me ....would investigate the gambling theory ...having been married to a compulsive gambler some years ago, this sounds familiar ! His employer suggested he join GA which he did, but as with any addiction, unless it is the addict who wishes to join, it will have no effect ! Like you D I paid all the bills and the mortgage as he had stopped doing so .....our daughter was in a little private school that I paid for ....I bought all the furniture etc for our new house ......only given money when he had a win on the horses. Terrible time ! He then left me for the local barmaid and I sold the house (Long story, but made sure I got the lot, house and contents)....after I bought another house outright and moved hundreds of miles away, I had a call from his new woman one day in tears asking me why I hadn't told her he was a gambler ! ...now why would i do that !

Companies House is a good idea ....gives you details of all directors of a company balance sheets, profit, loss, money in bank, etc and when last accounts filed ....I use this to locate my daughter ...like you , I paid for my D to go to Uni for four years, bought her a car, paid for holidays, flights out to see me when I moved to Spain, paid her rent and an allowance every month ....even offered to buy her a small house when I sold mine ......however, when I became an OAP and she had a very good job I said sorry, cannot do much for you financially anymore ....final crunch was when she e mailed 10 years ago to say she and her then boyfriend were coming on holiday to France (where I live now) and bringing his two small children ......I said ah lovely ! you can come and stay and I will pick you up from the airport ! planned all the things we could do, beach, activities etc .....no word from her. Tried to contact her for dates et ,,,,no answer ,,,,struck me off contact with all her social media sites ....no word ever since May 2008 .....which leads me to the only conclusion that she expected me to say,as I usually did, that I would pay for everything ! SO ...if you don't mind losing all contact with your D and the GC's ...tread carefully ! My D (discovered via Companies HOuse online) is now apparently living in a large house (looked at that online too...Zoopla) with someone else and there is a photo of a child aged about 6 or 7 could be hers, could be his, no idea !...looked him up too ...Companies HOuse as well .....so at least I know where she is and just hope she is happy !!! All I do know is that if, when I get infirm and need care, after my house is taken by the authorities to pay for it they will pursue her once the money is gone !!!! I WOULD hire a private investigator if only to put your mind at rest ...AND I would pay no more money ..but you could suggest to your DH that you put money aside in a seperate account to help if disaster strikes for your daughter o GC's, without your D knowing That way you would then be able to help, but she must not know about the account unless necessary once the sponger leaves !!

This all seems very strange - have you met his parents, has your daughter, how do you know he is a professional man if you don't know what he does? How can you live with someone for 5 years and have no clue what they do, here we constantly chat over what everyone is doing and when the men all get together business is usually their conversation, retired or not. I can see your OH as Grandad is very worried so the only offer I would make is to take the GC away for a week in the Summer otherwise no. Do ask him point blank what he does and how its going see what happens. PI good idea but expensive. You and OH need to get a strategy and get a little nosey.

Why would your daughter take a new partner into her house and have children with him without knowing his financial situation and have discussed what each can contribute to the household before committing to each other? Why would you agree to give money willynilly without also knowing the full situation for many years You are all being taken for a ride of your own creating. How can he refuse to discuss/reveal his true financial situation? He should have been shown the door years ago, or better still, never have been allowed inside in the first place. You are all mugs but really you should know that yourselves and it doesn't matter how nice he or his mother is. Time to have a family meeting review as it's close to the end of the financial year and insist on the truth.

This situation is becoming more and more intriguing.
Somebody, or several somebodies aren't telling the whole truth.

Its very hurtful but I sometimes think our kids see us as a permanent bank. One of mine once said to me that he sees no reason to support himself whilst me and his father have an income. I am so tempted some times to let his mates know he lives off pensioners but they would probably cheer him on. What is wrong with the generations coming now?

I hope he doesn’t have a gambling addiction. Surely, your Daughter should be asking him to account for his spending. I would never pay for my Daughters family holiday, unless I was treating them to a once in a lifetime treat.

Monica

That's the first thing I thought of - gambling.

We have not heard from the OP for a while, but rereading her posts I get a feeling of co-dependency building here.

Her DH doesn't want to enquire and is prepared to fund his DD and DGC to the extent of paying for holidays that, presumably include the partner.

They cannot have it both ways. Either they continue as they are until they are bankrupt or they call a stop, risk the flack hitting the fan and demand to know what he does, how he does it, how much he is earning and where it goes.

Personally, I find it difficult to sympathise with those who will suffer death by a thousand little cuts administered slowly over many years of misery against gritting your teeth having one major crisis and getting it over with.

I immediately thought that!

He is a self-employed architect. I know that he's registered with the RIBA. I've seen his work and he seems busy enough. I think he just isn't a business man and can't manage to nag clients to pay their bills. I don't think he's extravagant. He and my D did go over his finances. Luckily she only has a small mortgage which she is managing to pay without his help or ours. Once the children are old enough we will have them for holidays but the youngest is not 2 yet. I think it's the nursery fees that she finds the biggest drain on her finances but she can't work without child care.

Neither could her husband, presumably. Unless a mystery is uncovered, and it really is that he is useless with finances, then he needs to made to stand on his own two feet.

If he is a poor financial manager he should give up self employment and go and work for someone else.

I am sorry I have little sympathy for this man. He has a partner and 2 children to whom he has responsibilities and he is happy to live of his 'in laws'. Does he have no self-respect?

Could your daughter do a bit of payment chasing for him? Or find someone else who could. Or yes, consider looking for a post with a company that would give him a regular income.
He might just be a bit overwhelmed by finding he suddenly has this family dependent on him. And he is quite isolated working all day on his own.

Presumably whatever his self-employed business concern is, it isn't successful for whatever reason. Seems to me some people just won't acknowledge when the time has come to throw in the towel and change tack, preferring to throw good money (yours) after bad. Couldn't that be it?

Our SiL is dyslexic and ADHD and is useless with finances & management of himself or business. His symptoms mean no employer would take him on, or not for long. But he is very good at what he can do and, with our help, does well with his own business. Our DD acts as his business manager with DH’s help and we are all co-directors of the company. If he did not have our help or accept our right to know about finances etc, he would never earn anything and would never bill anyone but would still probably be giving his time to clients! He certainly couldn’t deal with bookings for his challenging clients, with dysfunctional Govt funding and Quality Assurance bodies. The Govt often tell people to be self-employed at the same time as making it increasingly difficult to be a sole or small trader. So I can quite understand how someone can be self-employed, work all hours and have no money, even if they are not involved in a ‘vice’. I cannot understand the secrecy from a partner and anyone else financially supporting them. Our involvement helped our sil from being exploited by a scheming, now ex, business partner.

My daughter has offered to take care of invoicing and debt collecting which he initially agreed to but then changed his mind. I have often thought that working in isolation would be very lonely and have suggested joining a firm but he's not interested. He's always seemed quite busy but maybe that's because he doesn't charge enough! I spoke to an architect who worked for us and he said his wife had to be like a Rottweiller and knock on doors, otherwise clients wouldn't pay. Maybe he needs to take an assertiveness course.

If you stopped subsidising the family, he would be under more pressure to stop living in cloud-cuckoo land and start making sure he was earning enough to make a fair contribution to the family's finances.

A person can be registered with a professional organisation but not work in that profession. Where people are working very long hours it is sometimes because they have more than one job.

Belinda49 has asked for advice and received it here. She has also asked for solutions.

The finances and mortgage of her DD are not her responsibility.

Solution: stop subsidising them and see what happens.

Belinda49 - in answer to your question "When can we say to him that enough is enough?", the answer is clear: NOW

Although I can see that he may not be good at getting payment for jobs done I wonder why he said he would let your daughter do the chasing and then changed his mind, plenty of wives help with a small company. Don't offer anymore financial help at least until you are sure what is going on.

As a self employed architect, draughtsman, or engineer the usual practice is that no plans or other documents are released to a client until all accounts are paid in full. It's as simple as that. It does sound as though he is just not managing his business properly and may be very embarrassed or it's all just too easy with the constant bailouts as he doesn't have to face realities.

You say your son in law is a lovely dad and there are two little children in this story whose relationship with their father is also important. Unless there is something really awful happening such as an addiction, gambling, on line porn, secret families etc I think your husband needs to review the role he is playing (with the best of intentions) but it is also a controlling role, encouraging dependency and possibly undermining your daughters partners role in his own family.

Lots of food for thought on this thread but the "Bank of Mum and Dad" as it is called here in Oz needs to close or only operate in emergencies. Step back so they can step up.

Belinda49 I empathise greatly.
My dd is with a 'man' (you'd all be appalled by the word I really want to use) that thinks it is ok to use his money to fund his drug habit and pay rent on a secret flat he's not living in, whilst living with her and contributing zilch but expecting to be fed etc ?. Sadly her wages don't spread that far..... muggins here has been supplying food and money for months. Now he's lost his job for not going I have plainly told dd there will be no more handouts. If dd (pregnant) and dgd are hungry they can eat with me. I REFUSE to enable him to behave like that any more!! Leaving my dd hungry ffs!!!

I agree, get a P.I.
Do not think for one minute you can quiz him about his finances. Your dd can, you or your dh would be overstepping the mark.

Hi, what a huge really d dilemma for you all. If he is a drug user, gambler, etc. You will not know about it , he will be incredibly devious so please don’t think that this cannot be happening. Please stop giving them money- I know this will be difficult as you will be concerned for your daughter but you may need to help her financially if or when the reasons for their lack of money from nelly comes out so you could tell yourself that you’re saving money for this eventuality. Do they have huge credit card debts? Is he actually earning any money? Good luck

Is he a gambling his money away?
That sounds a possibility.

Stop subsidising them.

If he runs a business it presumably has a name - he should receive post addressed to it. Once you have a name it might be possible to do a company search and find out more about it, unless it is a very informal thing, or possibly illegal. I agree with the suggestion of a private detective. You cannot fight an unknown enemy. It could all be above board - buying and selling, accountancy, or whatever, but obviously it is not paid well enough to sustain the lifestyle he would like. Or he could have an addiction, the possibilities are endless. You (or your daughter) need some facts.

If you withdraw your help he might borrow against your daughter’s house, if he hasn’t already. Forging a signature of someone you live with has been done many times. A PI is the best way gorward in my view. (Nowadays it is as much to do with on line searching as following physically). If it shows that he is genuine it will at least put your mind at rest.