Support for all who are living with estrangement (2)

Do you think you could send someand a few singing birds my way Yoga? It's miserable here, we even had a flurry of snowwhich I'm sure wasn't forecast for here.

It was DS's bday yesterday so we 'phoned him and said 'Happy 36th' to which he replied I'm 35. No I said, you were born in 1982, no he said I was born in 1983.

Well you'd think I'd know wouldn't you, which I do of course. He needs his birth certificate which I reluctantly gave to him before he went to Aus. because he loses things so now we have to get a copy.

I'll try not to be too triumphant when the copy arrives and it gives the year of his birth as 1982. A bit disconcerting though that he doesn't know the year he was born; bless.

Morning all

The sun is shinning , the birds are singing

Very good post Smileless and I second your last advise to Madgran & CrazyH don't let that thin thread go, cos when it's gone, there's no getting it back

For all estranged GP

You have lost a child grannygrace. He's your child. No matter how big he is or how old, he's your son, your child and you've lost him.

What does your friend expect you to do joannab? How does she propose that you see the children of your AC who has cut you out of his life?

That's terribly sad Iam for your friend to say she has no children because she's estranged. I can see why. If your only child or all of your children cut you out then you don't feel as if you have any.

We don't feel like grand parents because in the true sense of the word we aren't GP's are we. GP's in name is all we are and what use is that to us or to them for that matter.

That's no way to live is it joannab; walking on eggshells, watching every word, every action in case it offends. Living in fear of being CO, wondering if the next time you see your AC and/or your GC if it will be the last.

Being without our ES, or at least the son he used to be and our GC is torment but I couldn't live my life 'hanging by a thread'.

As you and I have said many times over the years here on GN Yogagirl, if they want you out, out you go. Like you, I had no idea that these estrangements were going on until it happened to us and I found the support thread here on GN.

I don't think for one moment it would have helped us to know because we'd never have believed that in my case, our wonderful son, and in yours your beautiful daughter, would have cut us out and take away our GC.

We'd probably have been like so many who aren't estranged and assumed that the parents of these AC must have done something , must have done something to deserve it.

It's only when you've gone through what we have and continue to go through it, that you come to understand that you don't have to have done anything wrong, it can and does just happen.

As you posted gg 'there but for the grace of God'.

Madgran and crazyH a thread isn't much I know, but it's something so keep hold of it for as long as you're able.

Of course it is Grannygrace and I feel your pain

I loved my now estranged Daughter with all of my heart & soul, I adored her, I miss her so vey, very much, she was my baby.

To the smug people we all meet who think it could never happen to them, they need to remember the expression there but for the grace of God . I would never have thought in a million years my eldest son would cut me off, but it happened. I know it's not the same as being cut off from grandchildren, but he is still my son. So to me it's like losing a child.

I had pointed out to my D's H, on the phone, that it would be my D that would get custody of L and therefore J and that it's the mother & C that stay in the family home and the man that leaves. Not how he had it, with my D locked out, staying with me without the C. So in other words, I think I pushed him into a corner, to take my D back, when really he wanted her out and for him to keep the C & family home. But my GD, not being his C, this wouldn't happen.

I didn't know what had hit me and I didn't see it coming!

For those GP hanging by a thread to their AC & GC, I think it helps no end to read this page, to know what could happen. I had no idea, of course I had heard of estrangement, but just thought it was a big family rift over something major, but I'd never heard anything like these stories here, if I had, would it have helped I wasn't hanging by a thread, I thought everything was normal, aside from my D & her H getting back together after their 'big argument', I thought he was 'off' with me over that [which it was that] But I was sticking up for both of them, not just my D, as I thought it wasn't good, breaking up the family, with two little ones, so I mediated to get them back together. As you may remember, the thing that happened was; his hate jumped from my D to me, he took her back and cut me out, within a space of six weeks.

Joannab yes, I do that too, answer quickly and change the subject. Of course all my friends have GC and they do share stories and pictures with me, but they are not being insensitive [I don't think] as I have known them for years, celebrating the births & some milestones with them. My sister and prev. sister.i.l don't have children, more's the pity, so safe with that one.

Smileless it's so difficult isn't it, because those not estranged have no idea. As you say, you have to just take it as it goes, I don't think you can have an 'off pat' reply. Strangely I have got talking to someone I don't know, say park or shop etc. and it ends up they are estranged, so the conversation is easy.

joannab I agree with all you say, keep it short or with acquaintances, change the subject.

Luckily I found this page and I also have friends who have at least one estrangement in the family.

I used to weep at Christmas time, seeing children out shopping with their parents and the grandchildren, but that pain has all but subsided.

I did have a very close friend who after a lunch out, challenged me that I wasn't making enough effort to see my DGC. I was a bit stumped but explained. We seldom see each other.

But, onward and upward, all there is to do is continue building a life built on friends, cousins and with those who care about me.

CrazyH I understand the feeling

Like me Madgran.....hanging by a thread.....and after the christening , the thread is getting more frayed....I don't think it (me) can take much more .

Joannab you are right, I volunteer and meet a lot of grandparents through that...so many of us seem to be treading on eggshells, feeling like we cant do right for doing wrong ...and so on! I would never in a million years have thought we would end up where we are ...not estranged but .........! Anyone who says it could never happen to them ...well lucky lucky them but I believe that "never" can never be assumed! !

My heart breaks for those of you who are estranged from your AC and, far from feeling smug, I thank God that I still have mine. I truly don’t know what I would do in those circumstances, as they are all the family I have left now. Mind you, I’m known as a strong woman....I hide things well!....so I guess I would have to cope.

My younger son has just sent a lovely pic of his youngest with her snow....woman?? There’s a caption saying “Hi Granny, this is you, and daddy says I look just like you too”......and she does!!

There was a time I couldn’t bear to be around children, it would upset me so much and a time Mothers Day was awful, so awful I would hibernate, curtains closed, TV and radio off so as to not be reminded of the day.

Now I love watching children and being around them and this Mother’s Day have asked my other half to take me to the zoo !

No way could I have ever done that once upon a time, in those early dark days of estrangement.

Thinking of others, I have friends who I know just do not mention their children and grandchildren to me because they think it insensitive or may remember my earlier days of distress. I make a point of always bringing their children and grandchildren into the conversation. They are a big part of their lives after all. What I often learn though is that their relationships are not lying on a bed of roses with their AC, more hanging by a thread, treading on eggshells with fear of saying the wrong word or doing the minor of things to be chopped off ! They have learned from my situation how this can so easily happen so err with caution.

Then I have other friends who I sometimes wonder if they are truly my friends now because they seem to take pleasure in showing no empathy or sensitivity towards my situation in really rubbing it in how wonderful their AC are, would never do what my EAC has done to me, blah blah blah. I try not to be in the company of these friends now, I keep my distance.

SparklyGrandma if I bump into mutual acquaintances of my EAC, unless they ask, I don’t refer to the situation. If they ask then I usually and very briefly say something like “no change there, nothing more I can do it seems” quickly changing the subject back to them.

Smileless and Yoga if a new acquaintance asks whether I have children or grandchildren, I make it brief, say “yes I have .....” then quickly turn it back to them “How about you, do you have any children or grandchildren ?”

Of course this took years of practice, at first I’d maybe get upset, go into things and wish that I hadn’t afterwards.

Now I prefer a new acquaintance to judge me as me first, get to know me as me first. As time goes by and they do find out I’m estranged they think it crazy of EAC not me because they’ve got to know me as me first.

Smileless, I believe you were right to be honest in your replies to the other volunteer at the messy play group. On of our life learning tasks is to integrate some fairly awful losses and life experiences, rather than try and put them in a box with a tightly screwed down lid. It's a great pity that the other volunteer lacked sensitivity but next time, it's possible you may meet someone with a greater understanding and compassion for the loving parents who find themselves excluded from the lives of their adult children and grandchildren. I know one couple who respond to any similar questions by saying they didn't have any children. I understand them doing this but I don't feel it's helpful in the long term.

Just dropping by here to say "Hi" and that I will post more later.
Have a good day everyone.

TBH I don't know, it would depend who was asking and how I felt at the time.

Funnily enough one of the other helpers from our church asked me so I told her about DS being Aus. She then asked if we had any other children so I told her about ES and GC, that that was our reason for moving here.

She looked quiteand then started talking about their 7 GC and how fortunate they were to see them all on a regular basis and that they should be grateful for their family. Then she started telling me they were having them all over for tea that afternoon (GC and their parents) and what a lot of work it would be; noisy and exhausting.

I must admit, when I got home I was happy in the knowledge that we wouldn't be feeding and entertaining 7 GC and their parents.

We've got rather used to our well ordered and peaceful home. Of course our GC would always be welcome (if only) but their parents; nooooooooo.

Smileless If you help out long term at 'messy play, another GM may ask you if you have GC, what will you tell them? When I'm asked, as I was by my new hairdresser, your mind races to think what to say, avoiding the questions as much as possible. I was thinking; 'shall I say I've lost them' then you'd be asked 'how, was it a car crash?' [no, but same outcome]

Sorry should have said long time posters, as I'm not long at all, in fact quite small

Oh I see Smileless. Well lovely if you can continue helping out at 'messy play' and 'your' little boys grow fond of you and you them. Good luck with that and let us know how it goes. xx

Yes Irishrose I think us long posters on here are different, all these years on. I'm sure if I re-read my posts from the first ones, I would probably think oh my!

CrazyH I only empty my brain on here now, before I must have driven my friends & family mad with it, couldn't talk of anything else, but never talk of it now and am never asked about it. Even my DD & I only speak briefly about it.

I have only just reached the point of being able to look at small children, which sounds a bit odd owing to the fact I do have a GD now. I started to melt when she was born, but still little ones made my heart skip a beat . There is a big full size poster at my Leisure centre were I teach my yoga 3 times a week, the little girl is eating cake, with a party hat on, advertising birthday parties there, and I have to walk passed it twice per session, I always think Laila

I was remembering last night, the phone call my now estD made to me, telling me she was pregnant and saying, under the circumstances, she could no longer stay working and living in Oxford, so I said to her come home J, I will look after you I then burst into tears
My D laughed and said to the person with her mum's crying she then said to me mum, it's me that should be crying, not you!