Support for all who are living with estrangement (2)

I hope you don't mind me posting. I've only replied because I remember your post about your Daughter and her cheeky sod of a partner!
The more you wrote the more I was. God knows how you felt!

From what you've wrote I think it's him, he sounds very money orientated, rude, manipulative and saw you as bank. When you didn't cough up the money he wasn't best pleased.
I think your Daughter is easily led, maybe vulnerable? under his spell and has chipped away at her.
There is nothing you can do! She needs to realise these things on her own.

I do believe in Psycics (well some of them) Ive experienced enough things that make me believe. I think she has given you good advice and maybe some insight on how shes feeling? If she is in an emotionally abusive relationship (or he could just be a piece of work!) She is going to need you when it goes pear shaped. Is she stubborn? If so keep the lines of communicatation open, light breezey texts say once a month? She is going to make mistakes, she needs to learn from them and grow as a person. This will change her and I think you need to allow her to make this HUGEmistake but be there in the background.

I'm in the other camp, my DH 'cut off' his mom. It's a long story. Nothing like yours. Maybe the female equivalent of your daughter's partner? There was never a good relationship between them. What triggered it was the birth of our DD and it went downhill from there.

Spells are broken and there is absolutely nothing wrong with believing in the tooth fairy

Violet, thank you so much for your post and your encouraging words, which I really appreciate. The psychic also said that there was a dominant male, who was spiteful and controlling.....

My concern is that I won't get to see my grandchild unless I pay through the nose, which I am not prepared to do, as I think it will make for a very toxic future relationship. Of course, I want to help where I can, but it makes it all very difficult. I just need to take it a step at a time, but sometimes it is so hard. I did transfer a sum of money to my daughter recently, as I had received an unexpected windfall, and I actually had a text from him to say thank you (the first contact in two years). It was as though I had to be encouraged in this - a sort of reinforcement behaviour. I just replied saying they were very welcome, hope all well etc

And yes, my daughter is very stubborn, something else the psychic said, although very vulnerable underneath.

'The psychic also said that there was a dominant male, who was spiteful and controlling.....'

And doesn't that make sense now? After everything you have wrote.

Are there any grandchildren yet? If he's that manipulative, spiteful and all the other things he's playing your DD like a fiddle. If grandchildren do come along, Children don't add rainbows and unicorns it's nothing but stress and exhaustion. I bet any money your DD is not named anywhere on that house, which means for me He wants a quick clean get away, Children are not that! He would also have to pay for them, can you see that happening?

Violet, I believe that there is a baby on the way, and I know that he has put the house in his sole name, despite the fact that DD has put in some of the money, which she inherited from her grandfather. Also, a significant proportion of the purchase price came from profit on the previous house, which DD helped to renovate, as well as driving him backwards and forwards to the DIY shops etc (he didn't drive or have a car) and paying for materials from her savings.

I have no doubt that the baby will be used as another lever to try to extract money and that I will be lucky to see the baby if I don't pay.

Sadly, I don't think there is anything I can do at this stage, but love her and be here for her and hope that it works out with him, despite the odds, as hopefully being parents will be the making of them both, and they will put the child's interests first.

My daughter loves him and is desperate to get married. She has even created a list of wedding music, although it would be sad for her to be married without any of her family there. On the other hand, if they were to be married, she would have much more legal protection and probably equal rights to the house (which is probably why they are not married, so far as I am aware, but maybe I am just too cynical).

You may find that your D's position with the house isn't bad as you think Dolcelatte. Cohabiting gives her certain rights and if she's put money into the property that also gives her a stronger position.

It must be a terrible worry for you; I'm so sorry.

I sometimes think how fortunate Mr. S. and I are to have no contact with ES at all and now that we've moved, to never see him or our GC.

Having a child together may be the making of them, especially him but isn't it awful when for some, the news of a GC on the way brings not joy but heartache and sorrow.

Cripes Dolcelatte what a mess

The only I think you could do is keep in low contact?
Send a card, the odd text 'Hope you're all well' things like that, keep positive and breezey. I think if you add pressure (I don't think that's the right word but I hope you understand what I mean) they will retract more and it's the perfect ammo he would use.

Having a baby is massive and it usually changes the relationship between everyone, including mother and daughter. I found a huge new respect for my mom and she for me. We was both part of this club and we both experienced the same.
She knew how I was feeling, the pain and happiness. Her mothering instincts kicked in with me and she wanted to help me.
I knew the love she felt for me. I didn't understand 'Mothers love' untill then.
She gave a crap about me and my well being, my recovery, other people wanted at the baby if you see what I mean?

Keep in low contact if possible and keep it consistent. See if there's anything you need to buy, if they want any meals prepared, practical things you know? To help them and take the stress off.
Don't up contact or add pressure as soon as the baby is here, it could make her think you just want the baby and not her.
Again perfect ammo for him.

I hope this makes sense! I hope it changes him and her. If he shows his true colours she is going to need support especially with a baby.

Good advice there violetfloss.

Violet, thank you so much for taking the trouble to give what is excellent advice. I know that I need to be patient and that to do otherwise, or to be pushy in any way, will play into his hands, as you rightly say. It is just so horrible when your enemy - which I believe he is - is living with the child you love and seemingly poisoning her against her entire family.
I am hoping that when the baby arrives she will understand how much I love her. I would happily do anything to help and, due to distance, I would never be able to see them very often. But I have a feeling that he will not want us to see the baby at all. He has clearly persuaded my daughter to all but cut off contact and we used to be close, texting all the time seeing each other regularly etc.
Ultimately, I just want her to be happy, but it’s very sad if the baby doesn’t see his/her mother’s family.

If your estranged dc wrote to you and asked you to answer a series of questions, would you do it? No explanation, no conversation, just a list of questions about your background & experience. Would you reply? What would you reply?

Of course I would, but in a kind manner not just a simple yes or no.

Yes, I would reply honestly to any questions asked but doubt our ES would reciprocate.

Just received an email from my oldest and dearest friend that their third GC is on the way; the youngest son's first child.

We're so very happy for them of course so why am I crying?
It feels like 'water, water every where, but not a drop to drink'

SmilelessI totally understand what you are saying. It’s what I call the Facebook syndrome. All is presented as lovely by all the children,the pictures, etc. I have stopped seeing some of my friends socially as it’s too hurtful to hear them constantly talk and brag about their wonderful families and grandchildren while our hearts are breaking. And I’m tired of having to think of how to explain or if I should explain the estrangement.
I’m glad you found those watercolor paintings. It’s another piece of family history . Maybe you could write down some history and ancestry for your GC for one day they WILL seek you out or at 18 here you can seek them out and their parents have nothing to say about it. I’m into genealogy and I write a journal a few days a week about life so that my GC will know me. Also taking video of you and your husband talking about your lives whatever is something that can be out on a DVD and stashed away. Save a piece of you. Let them hear your voice,see where you live, know what your personality is like. Show them what other family members and close friends look like. We can all do this despite being denied memories. We can create memories of us for them to have later. Our children cannot stop this. We can do something positive despite their rejection of us. Honestly I feel better knowing the two estranged GC will get to see this one day .

Good idea Rhinestone ....the DVD

I made up a box to give my GD when I met her again, as we were estranged before she was two. I put birthday, easter and christmas cards in it, and little trinkets, and also christmas decorations with her name or initials on them. Happily, we were put in contact again when she was eight, and we opened all the cards together. Never give up!

I think a "memory box" is an excellent idea. The reality is that many EAC don't WANT to be chased or contacted. They view this as harassment.

By making a memory box, you have a healthy outlet while at the same time respecting your AC's choices. Obviously it will not be the same as giving your GC the gifts and cards at the time. I'm not saying it's an ideal solution. But it will allow you to mark those special occasions in a positive way and to save memories for the future.

So sorry you felt like that Smileless. Perfectly understandable. I wish those who inflict this sort of invisible pain understood just what it feels like.

Good evening ladies. Yes, memory boxes are an excellent idea. We had a beautiful toy chest made for our GC with their names engraved in wood that they'll inherit one day.

There's a lot to sort to put in, photo's, birthday and Christmas cards sent which wont have been received and little things we've bought. I've made one entry in a journal but had never thought of making a video and having it put onto a DCD; good idea Rhinestone.

I wonder how many takes we'd have to do before we could manage it without shedding any tears.

There is also the reality agnurse that many estranged parents wouldn't dream of contacting or chasing the AC who have so cruelly cut them out. It certainly isn't something we'd want to do any more than our ES would.

For me, buying, saving and collecting things for our GC isn't a positive experience, it's a heart breaking one which is probably why there's virtually nothing in their memory box at the moment. Everything is put away in other boxes until I can bring myself to sort through it and put it in the box for which it was intended.

That must have been wonderful NanaWilson, sharing that precious moment with your GD.

It is hard isn't it Rhinestone. We're fortunate in that family and friends of course talk to us about their GC but do so in a way that is sensitive to our predicament.

I can't help but think Googoogool that if they had the faintest idea of the pain and suffering they cause, they wouldn't do what they're doing.

This is the third week of estrangement and I really am not doing ok. My middle son texted me to say he wants nothing more to do with me and never to try to make contact. It was just over a drunken (him, not me ) rant. He went on and on about me favouring his sister and brother etc etc. I've already written about it earlier. My main problem is, it's consuming me day and night...I wonder whether I should apologise for telling his siblings that he "attacked" (verbally of course) me, tell him that I love him etc etc. I haven't told my friends because they all have such wonderful, harmonious families. I am really dying inside
I have no Mr H to talk to. How do you all cope?

crazy it's very early days and you're probably still in a state of shock having received your S's cruel and over the top reaction to what you told his siblings.

Hopefully, given time he'll calm down and get over his shame of being drunk and verbally attacking his mother, and the added shame of his siblings knowing what he's done.

IMO you did nothing wrong telling your other AC about what had happened. You don't have a Mr. H. for support and it's very hard to open up to friends whose own families seem to be "wonderful (and) harmonious".

I have a friend who I've known for more than 30 years who has a very difficult and tragic event happening within her family. I've always been completely honest and open with her about our ES who she's known since he was 2 years old, yet just 2 days ago she told me everything was great. I know from a third party that this couldn't be further from the truth and yet despite the wonderful friendship we have, she sadly is unable to take me into her confidence so I of course, say nothing.

As we on this thread know crazy some EP's say and do nothing, giving their EAC what they want; no contact and it makes no difference. It's made no difference to Mr. S. and me. Some do all that they can, send loving messages and apologise even when they don't feel they've done anything to apologise for

If you feel that telling his sibling was wrong, then yes tell him you're sorry and take the opportunity to tell him that you love him. Once that's done then sadly all you can do is wait.

There was a time and for a long time that I felt I was dying inside too. I hope with all my heart that unlike our S your S gets in touch and you can sort this out because your S knows how much you love him, that he's in the wrong and you don't deserve to treated so cruelly.

Thanks Smileless.....I knew I'll have some good, fair advice from you and ofcourse the other grans. I have read all your posts Smileless, and felt so much for you, especially, if I remember correct, you said that your ES walks past your house with your GC (perhaps it was someone else, can't remember). You show great empathy with all the posters and give great advice, despite your heartbreaking situation.
Yes, it's early days and I hope he will realise what he's done....I ache to see the little girls, not that I see them often, but the thought of not seeing them ever again, is killing me.Thanks for the flowers xx

Well, for anyone who's interested, I did hear back (from my 'd'm) in reply to my letter. (estranged 10yrs). Sadly, absolutely nothing has changed. No insight, no understanding, no introspection. Just subtle passive aggression. My old grandma used to say 'There's none so blind as those that cannot see' and that's exactly the case here. I have closure now. I just need to grieve what I never had.

Jammytoast, I tried to run the pages back to read your story, but came to page 18 and gave up. I remember your name, but not your story....same as the rest of us I'm sure...heartbreaking.....I am presuming 'd' is for daughter. Whatever it stands for, I'm sorry it's 10 years. My estrangement is 3 weeks and I'm dying inside ....you have fought for what you wanted, but looks like it's not to be. So sorry for you

Jammy

Sadly, from what you've posted, it's quite possible that your mum might be a narcissist. Narcissists are pathologically incapable of seeing anything beyond their own narrative. You could show them the complete truth, right in front of their eyes, and they would tell you it didn't exist if it wasn't convenient to their story.

Sorry Jammy....just realised it's your mother you are talking about...sorry