Support for all who are living with estrangement (2)

Oh! So many posts here and so much heartache! I feel for all! Hard to respond to everyone. Dolecatte, your sad situation caught my attention. I haven't experienced anything similar so not sure how I would handle it. I think you and DH have a lot of courage. Just from what I'm reading, I don't think she's truly rejecting you. Maybe it's due to a controlling husband or issues within herself, but I think she's just giving you all she can right now. It may feel like "rejection," but I don't believe she means it that way.

I also think you've gotten some great advice here about how to deal with this. Just want to add maybe it's best to accept whatever contact you get and not ask for more? Like if DD calls, just enjoy the phone call and perhaps not ask to see her. I get the feeling that she's giving what she can when she can. Please let her set the pace.

Sleepybythesea, your post caught my attention, also. Very sorry about your DD's problems and her apparent lack of interest in her child. I think it's beautiful that you and DH have stepped up to raise him. However, what if she suddenly decides to take him away? Are you thinking of seeking custody?

Thank you Rhinestone. I'm so sorry to learn that you've been unwell and hope that your leg is feeling better now.

Mr. S. found 2 water colour paintings of his GP's, his GM looks to be in her early 20's and his GF in his early 30's. They were in an old tin rolled up, never been trimmed or framed and looked quite dirty.

I gave him a make up brush I use to dust some intricate ornaments and once the surface dirt had been brushed off they looked much better. We bought a couple of frames and now they're behind glass they look amazing. Because they've been shut away all these years the colours have never faded and they're now hanging on our wall.

It made me think about our GC when I saw how thrilled he is with them and talked about his memories, that our GC will never have any memories of us.

Lucky, thank you for your kind message. How can you not fit in with your daughter - you gave birth to her and raised her after all. It sounds as though you have had a lot of pain in your life but you are a very courageous lady.

Greengal, I think your advice is spot on. My daughter does have a controlling partner, at least I believe so, who seems to have isolated her from her family and friends, but hopefully she will be ok and happy and we will get our relationship back on track eventually. I will let her set the pace, as you suggest.

Smileless - your DGC are a part of you and nothing can change that. My mother died before my children were born, and my father shortly after my youngest was born, so they don't have any direct memories as such, but they do show great interest in my parents. They are delighted, for example, to look at my mother's Bride's Book and my father's letters which he sent home when he was fighting in WW2.

My grandfathers died before I was born and my grandmothers when I was very young, but they are still a part of me and I am interested in them. I have joined Ancestry in order to find out about my family history. I honestly believe that your grandchildren will want to find you and will find you and that you will have a joyful reunion one day. But I completely understand why you need to let things go and move on for peace of mind. Maybe you could leave them a journal or a memory box or something.
Time is strange but there is a unity and we are part of our ancestors and they of us, nothing can change that.

Smileless - that's fantastic that you found the watercolours!

Hubby's maternal grandfather (not the pervert; Hubby's maternal grandfather was a very kind and gracious man) used to do paintings and he would do them partly 3D. He would cut out pieces of wood and glue them to part of the painting to create a 3D effect. We have one he did of a narrow boat where the narrow boat is 3D and the rest of the painting is 2D. He was an incredible artist.

A wonderful keepsake for you and your H agnurse; something to treasure.

I'm hoping that Mr. S.'s mum will know when and why the portraits were done. It wasn't a very happy marriage and maybe that's why they were never framed but I'm very curious as to why they sat for them in the first place.

If we get any information I'll let you all know.

Thank you Dolcelatte for your very kind and supportive post.

What a poignant find those paintings are, Smiliess!

Dolecelatte, glad you agree about space!

Agnurse, that's awesome! I hope you and hubby always enjoy it!

Yes, they are a poignant find Greengal. I find myself drawn to them. I never knew Mr. S.'s GF but did know his GM when she was elderly and very frail.

There's something more 'real' about a portrait than a photograph, that tells us something about the subject that a photograph doesn't quite capture.

I don’t remember if I posted this here or on another site but my son came back to us a year after estrangement. He wrote me a beautiful letter saying the estrangement harms nothing to do with me that it was all him and his needing to separate from everyone for a while. Could this possible be what is going on with many of our children? They don’t want any influence or maybe they think we are judging them. There is a spectrum of mental illness and we don’t know where some of the children could be. My son has some paranoia but not enough for him to not function so he doesn’t seek help. My son estranged himself again last September after a fight he started with his sister. My family was all there and witnessed it. I wrote him a few days ago to ask if he and his sister would sit down with me and we could work out our differences. I got a response yesterday saying he won’t sit with me or talk to me u til his sister apologizes in a taped message to him and we can all see how wrong she was. Actually he was the wrong person getting in her face telling her she was a horrible mom in front of her children. He pointed a finger in her face and she slapped it away. So I’m being held hostage . This makes no sense to me but I’m clear he has mental problems.
He’s an angry man because he is now homeless living with a friend. I divorced his father when he was young because his father was physically abusive to him. He is now narcissistic and verbally abusive like his father. He won’t seek help because he believes he is the enlightened one. I sent a loving kind letter to which I got an angry mean answer. So for those of us that are tossing and turning at night and “ what if ing “ ourselves sometimes we have to pause and think that our children may be on that spectrum of mental problems. I have a bipolar mom and a non functioning brother who has depression, anger , paranoia and agoraphobia. Sometimes it’s just in the genes. We cannot rule that out. My heart breaks for all of us in this continuing saga.

He will be back again Rhinestone, he obviously needs you.

Rhinestone...I'm glad you have that letter from him. It could be nice to re read from time to time. A reminder of how loving he can be.

I'm acutely aware of how we come here to exorcise the grief and pain inflicted by our loved AC's behaviour, and it set me thinking the other day.
How often do we tell or show our other children/friends or family just how much they mean to us?
So I sat down and wrote a letter to one of my sons, telling him how much he adds to my life and listing all the nice things he does for me, without being asked, and saying how proud I am of his thoughtfulness.

Its easy to get swallowed up in the hurt and rejection and so very easy to just expect others around us to understand our perspective.

I'm luckier than some, I realise that, and today I can cope because of the kindness of strangers on this site.

For which I am honestly and humbly Thankful.

The first letter was nice but this last email was a nightmare holding me hostage until his sister apologizes for her small part after he said terrible abisive things about her in from of her children. He plainly said he didn’t want to talk to me until she apologized. That’s crazy. I offered to sit with them both but no go.
On the other hand my stepson still has not contacted his father in almost four years and we have yet to see the two boys after caring for the oldest for three years. To have two children in one family estranged is sometimes more than I can bear.

Beautiful post, Namsnanny!

Rhinestone, I'm so sorry that you are estranged from 2 sons - or I guess it's one son and one stepson, but IDK if that makes any difference to you.

I think it's ridiculous that ES is holding you somehow responsible for what he thinks DD did wrong and that he won't reconcile with you until she apologizes. That's definitely a sort of emotional extortion (or whatever one would call it) and totally uncalled-for! I am so sorry.

It's hard, I know, but I don't think you should willingly play a role in this in any way, shape or form, not even offering to "sit with them both." That was so kind of you but as you can see, it didn't work. Also, IMO, it might reinforce his idea that you have a part in this. You don't.

Is there any connection between the two estrangements? If yes, does that give you a clue as to how to begin to heal them? If not, then please remember they are separate cases and neither of them, apparently, your fault. Perhaps seeing that will ease your pain.

Namsnanny, what a lovely idea, to write to your other son to say how much he means to you.

One of the loveliest gifts I have ever received was from my youngest daughter (not the semi estranged one) when she was much younger, which is a pack of cards and, on each card, she wrote a reason why she loves me. I am amazed that she was able to fill it, but she did! When I am feeling low, I still look at that pack of cards and it never fails to cheer me up. She and I are always telling each other that we love each other, and also with my middle daughter.

I only wish that I could go back to that lovely spontaneous affectionate relationship with my eldest but, in mourning what we have lost, we must not lose sight of the great blessings which we do have and give thanks for them.

Rhinestone, when I read your posts about your sons eratic and violent outburst, it does seem he has severe problems. Unfortunately there is only him that can seek the help he needs when he acknowledges the problem. Mental health issues are so hard on everyone connected with that person, they twist things test are said, then deny it, you cannot do right for doing wrong. It is a nightmare, but you have to protect yourself, however much time and money you put out there trying to help, it is wasted, he has to want it. You need help and support. Over here Mental Health is finally being talked about and it out in the open not hidden as if it is to be ashamed of. The son that wrote that first lovely letter is the real him, when things get really bad read it.

That was a lovely thing to say to Rhinestone Luckylegs "The son that wrote that first lovely letter is the real him". I'm going to keep that in mind when I look at the lovely things our ES bought me over the years, which I will always treasure, and tell myself that the loving young man who always put so much thought into the gifts he bought, is the real one.

I think Greengal is right Northernsoul and you should have no part in your son's fall out with his sister. It may not be possible for him, with his problems, to see your gesture for what it was, a mother's desire to bring her children together again.

He's reached out to you before and like Dolcelatte I think he'll do so again because he needs you.

Thank you Namsnanny for the kindness and support you have given to all of us here.

I agree Namsnanny, it's very important to let those we love in our lives know how thankful we are to have them and how much we love them.

We skype DS in Aus. almost every week and tell him how much we love him and how proud we are of all that he's achieved especially coping with the break up of his marriage while living so far away.

Luckeylegs9 and Greengal Thank you so much for your posts. It helped to see things differently. Yes the estrangement dare for two different reasons. We don’t know why my stepson has kept us away for almost four years and why we can’t see out two little grandsons. My son has anger about his life and I feel like the punching bag. He’s jealous of my daughter and has even gotten mad at me for watching her two children. He is 40 with no career and no place to live apparently. He won’t work for someone else as he has authority issues. He was the sweetest easiest to raise so what happened? And he feels he is enlightened so he knows all the right answers. He feels it is his right to give everyone advice and that they should listen to him. He now sounds like my brother who used to estrange my parents on and off six months at a time. Now my brother is so agoraphobic he tells on my 89 year old mother . That’s why I believe there is a genetic predisposition to our children’s estrangement.

I meant my brother relies on my 89 year old mother. ( I need to find my glasses)

You might be right about "genetic predisposition," Rhinestone. Also, I think ES is probably disappointed in how his own life is going right now, and may be lashing out at everyone else as a result.

How ironic that the brother who used to estrange your parents sometimes now depends on one of them! Again, IDK, but I'll bet the estrangements were more about struggles w/in himself than anything else.

Beautiful sentiment, Dolcecatte!

GreengalYes you are correct. It’s about the sad state of his life that he’s lashing out. I wonder how many other of our children are mad and angry at themselves and we become the focus of that anger and they estrange us. They may be in an unhappy marriage
or job or just plain unhappy about themselves for whatever reason. Many of our children don’t see what part their behavior has played prior to the estrangement. Someday I hope they can look in the mirror.

Thought this was good

Rhinestone

I think that's a very healthy way of dealing with estrangement. From what I have read, the LAST thing many EC want is their parents trying to chase them down. This tends to worsen the estrangement. If you wait patiently and do your own thing, you can have a very fulfilling life. Obviously it won't be the same as with your EC.

Sometimes, too, time apart can lead to the EC returning to contact.

I know this is controversial but I have been seeking psychic advice about the situation with my daughter, and have been told that it will be ok in the end, but will take time, that I need to be patient etc.

I find it reassuring and probably less expensive than counselling. They also give advice such as you are neglecting yourself, develop interests, be patient, be positive, it's what's meant to be now, forgive etc, also that there is nothing I can do and that to try or to chase will drive her further away. She is young, she is finding herself, and that I need to be kinder to myself and offload the guilt.

I just wondered if anyone else had done this. Whether or not the predictions turn out right, I have found this comforting.

Also, I have been advised that part of the reason my daughter is breaking away is to find her own identity, which sort of makes sense, that she is growing up and that I need to let her go, which also makes sense to an extent - but just a call once a month, a weekly text, some spontaneity, would be good. I don't want to live in her pocket or try to take over her life. It is said that she will settle and gain new perspective, that there will be a reconciliation. I so want to believe it, even if it is like believing in Father Christmas or the Tooth Fairy, is that so wrong if it brings peace of mind?

I was just wondering, for those of you in the same unhappy position, how old was your adult child when estrangement happened and did anything trigger it or was it a gradual process?

Please don't reply if it's too painful. I am just trying to find a pattern, to make sense of things.