Isn't this a simple logic

There's so much assumption and bias going on. 'The DIL must be seeking reassurance by telling her version of story on Gransnet! What's the point? She is just winding us up purposely!' Do people really think that it's a bad thing to visit forums for 'different generation' and express a different point of view? Did I disclose any details and ask everyone to judge? Have I ever used the words 'right' or 'wrong'?

The thing that confuses me about the MIL/DIL subject when discussed is that it always seems to be a DIL who comes here and wants answers...or possibly a reaction. If they are so completely sure of having done the right thing, especially if backed by therapy, then why are they not content to live with the choices they made. Why the need for vindication? Is there perhaps a trace of guilt?

Reading the estrangement thread it appears that most of the estranged parents have accepted their lot, finally realising that they are unable to change anything. This does not mean that their lives are without hope. That at the very least they get some answers before they die. I am one such granny. I truly have done nothing to my grandchildren’s mothers, confirmed by the fact that my sons are still as close to me as ever. This in itself has actually exacerbated the problem though, because they have not fallen into line. So battle lines have been drawn and I am unable to see my grandchildren. All attempts by my sons creates a war zone, so for theirs and the little ones sakes, I have stepped away.

I’m sure that there are grandparents who would not be a good influence in the grandchildren’s lives. If this means cutting them off for the safety of the children, then of course that must happen. However, in the case of the OP, whilst she says she doesn’t stop her children from visiting their grandmother, it must be obvious to them that she is not happy about it. This will undoubtedly colour their feelings.

Unfortunately whilst the MIL/DIL relationship has often been a difficult one, I feel there’s been a sea change for the worse in recent years. Reams have been written, and forums created encouraging cutting off people who you perceive to be surplus to requirements in your life. The old “lets sit down with a cuppa and talk” appears to be obsolete.....unless it’s with a counsellor, who has no personal knowledge of the dynamics of a family she may be encouraging you to break away from.....nor the abject misery and heartbreak that causes.

A lot of these MiL/DiL threads are one half of the pair looking for justification for themselves so they can turn to the other and say 'See, it's all your fault'.

Yes, there are some very unpleasant people in this world and some people are unfortunate to find one of them is their MiL/DiL. Others are awkward and difficult. I am so glad that in both roles I won first prize, but tieing your mental knickers in twist about it, will only make matters worse. Just keep calm and make the best of a bad situation.

I don't really get that people seem to think they HAVE to get on with other people. Sometimes you just don't, regardless of who they are. I don't get one with some of my siblings but I am civil to them, send cards for birthdays etc, don't socialise with them and don't expect any more than that. Why does everyone expect there to be a fabulous relationship with any in-laws? Be realistic - some will, some wont. My mil isn't someone I would be friendly with if I met her for any other reason than she's my husbands mother, so I don't see why I'm expected to be friendly with her just because of that reason, and vice versa - her son chose me, she didn't!

I also hope that in the future my DC & GC can have a good chuckle st my 'foibles" after all isn't that what makes us who we are? Obviously abuse etc are on a completely different level but in the absence of that surely we can live with our differences?

I got on ok with my MIL but not especially well. I treated her like I would a work colleague & we had a civil relationship. My view is that you have to get along with allsorts in this world & some are luckier than others with in laws ( & indeed parents).
My children found her "foibles' quite funny & endearing & still laugh about them a few years after her death & definitely benefited from their relationship with her.

If you feel a person's attitude towards you is so toxic that it is damaging your wellbeing and making you feel anxious and depressed, then perhaps the only option is to avoid seeing that person.

I don't think it is right to try and influence other people - perhaps by showing disapproval or distress - to break off relations, particularly if that person is a close family member such as a parent, grandparent or sibling.

This can cause unhappiness for other close family members who may struggle to manage the feelings of guilt and powerlessness that are likely to accompany situations of conflicting loyalties .

If it were me, I hope I would have the strength to do my best to try not to influence people to maintain, and act on, the view I have of another person. If someone is really malicious and unpleasant, other people will find out in time and can make up their own minds as to how much, if any, contact they wish to maintain.

I suspect that Gransnet has become "the" place to come to for those who wish to air their differences with other generations in their or their spouse's family, and each thread on the subject adds to the giant snowball effect. The result is that it can seem to readers that inter-generational friction is the norm, and that the normal reaction to it is to take offence and cut off "diplomatic relations".

A while ago we had a thread on harmonious relationships with inlaws - perhaps it should be revived at intervals to supply balance.

Hear! Hear! Monica. There seems to have been a spate of MIL v DIL threads on here lately. Whilst it is disappointing if the In-Laws or Grandparents to the same children do not get along, it is not the end of the world. As you say we have all had to deal with a 'difficult' work colleague or fellow committee member, etc. Best to work out a strategy and stick to it. No point in expecting a perfect solution.

It is not that I have thought much on this subject, it is more that I think, that others overthink it.

I just think that if people stopped constantly going on about MiLs and DiLs and just saw it as two random people brought together by chance who may or may not like each other but for practical reasons need to get on together, as if you had a work colleague you didn't particularly like but need to work with, they would make their lives simpler and easier.

I feel if we love our DHs we need to do our utmost to love their families too. Of course it may not be easy!!

Well you are not going to like my post so gird your loins

I don’t understand your need to ask this question on here if you have been in ‘therapies’ over this very situation surely you have chewed it over and over for ever and why then the need to ask a set of complete strangers with no knowledge of your family dynamics to judge that you are right and she is wrong which is what your last question on your original post asks.
Why on earth are you asking Monica what you should say to your mother in law ask your therapist

Dove I had been thinking about your post and what I wrote and then had a look and saw your reply. What I will admit to doing something I find a tad annoying on GN which when people only see their own experience ie I am a very caring GM and MIL and do my best for my family so therefore every MIL is basically doing her best. I know for a fact that isn’t true so my advice to you should have been.....

You cut your MIL off because of her treatment to you, so therefore you are not and nor should you ever be (it’s not your job) be the one who arranges or reminds your DH to see his DM. Nor would I welcome her into my home. If your MIL was a nice enough person she would have welcomed you into her family and in return been welcomed to your home.

If your DC have a good enough relationship with their GM they could see her with their DF. If she is nasty to your DC then don’t force them to see her.

There certainly are some awful, toxic people around. One of my first unpleasant memories is of my maternal GM. It’s not very nice to have to spend family celebrations with people who show they dislike you even though you are very young.

I’m glad to know you didn’t have unpleasant feelings at all, Monica. While you said you didn’t know enough info to give advice to anyone, you did give advice to me after all. and because you made that effort to give advice, I took that it’s a topic that you personally felt a lot about.
I don’t look for a specific answer. I don’t aim to hurt. I am still thinking what if my children don’t want to see me one day, what would I do? I have also read a lot of threads on Gransnet and I realised if a fallout situation happened, let’s say between friends, or even a couple, the comments would never be the same.
You are right, MILs mostly want to be with her son and GC, they don’t have to like their DILs! But how do you justify that it’s the unliked DIL ‘s responsibilties to plan a patterned visit and even entertain the MIL who doesn’t like her?
The most important message I learnt in my therapies is, if I want a situation to change, I change my behaviour. And I did. That’s why I decided to stop seeing my MIL. But in retrospect, I could have done more to save the relationship, I didn’t have the courage to be more assertive, particularly at the beginning of our relationship , and I didn’t have the courage to express my resentment earlier - I let the resentment rolled like a snowball until it got too big and suffocated.
Failure has its value. We all agree that there are two sides of a story but when it happens to us, oh it’s another story. My relationship with my MIL failed but I hope for those who’s not too late or too proud to mend, mend it.

Sometimes. only sometimes mind you, I think my family life is complicated. Then I look on here and realise it really isn’t, and for that I’m very grateful. Mostly we all get on and that’s ok, but sometimes we don’t and that’s ok too because no matter what there’s still a commitment to stick with it because we do care about each other. We certainly don’t agree all of the time and every now and then there are tensions. There’s nothing like how folk bring up their children/ indulge their pets/spend their money to show up the cracks! No doubt some would say it’s an over simplistic view but it works for me and I’m sticking with it.

Post above posted it self! I was drinking my coffee, hands nowhere near key board when up it came as posted.

Since I know neither you nor your MiL and you give only the vaguest of information about your problems, I would not dream of giving anyone specific advice in that situation.

I am curious why your immediate response was to assume that our responses were triggered by unpleasant feelings or defensiveness faced with your OP

It triggers no unpleasant feelings in me at all. I had a wonderful MiL. At times she was easier to talk to than my own mother, who I loved dearly. I also have the happiest of relationships with my DDiL, we swap clothes, have days out together and have just discovered we both have the same favourite cookery book. We stay with her mother when we visit. I have nothing to be defensive about.

I have read all the posts on this thread several times and I can see nothing in a single email that could justify your response. Most show love and understanding for your position and draw on their own experience to offer you help.

Do you know the answer you want and is it just that we are not giving it?

I don’t agree, Monica. I am sorry if my post triggered some unpleasant feelings for you or other grans and might have ‘made’ anyone defensive. (I’m trying to use your wordings here).

If you got a chance to give advice to my mother in law, what would you say?

Just a thought. Do 'elephant removals' pack your things into trunks?

Reported

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Most sensible post I've seen on this subject Monica in a long , long while . The OP would do well to really give your post some thought.

A MiL is not a 'companion' she is the mother of the SiL/DiL, gave birth to them, brought them up and loves them. Having said that, there is not a sub-species of 'human' called MiL, specially bred for the purpose. MiL's are a random sample from the 50% of humanity that are female and among that 50%, that includes DiLs, there are the nice, the loving, the ghastly and the barking. There are also two nice people, one a MiL the other DiL, who nevertheless are so different they do not get on.

That a MiL wants to be with her DS and his family, does not mean she likes you. It means she loves her son and, by extension her DGC and DiL if she can. Liking doesn't enter into it.

You also need to think why you have a problems with her and cut her some line. Your MiL has a back story, there is probably a reason why she behaves the way she does for which you can should show sympathy and understanding, and also consider the possibility that you are the cause of the problem. Do you make your MiL feel inadequate or defensive? Even if you say nothing does your whole demeanour make it clear to her you have no respect for her. That would as sure as hell make me ansi with anyone.

The best thing to do is not to go into constant deep analysis. Just you and your DH sit down and think about practical and positive ways you can solve the problem. Plan a visiting pattern that enables the children to see their DGM at reasonable intervals with their father present and only invite her to your house on family occasions when there are plenty of other people to dilute her.

Stop thinking of all the negatives and try and work out a positive solution.

Stella, my husband moved out of my MIL's house as soon as he could, way before he met me, even though when there were only the two of them. I guess the common mistake that MILs make is to blame the DILs/SILs for not having a close relationship with their own offsprings.

And my children do see her still. I just don't actively arrange that like I did before. My husband arranges it if he wants.

It is very interesting to read your comment though. When a person is cut out from another's life, it seems that it isn't that important to ask why and listen to both sides? The person who is cut off would immediately become the victim and the person who avoid contact must be the villain?

Paddyann, I love your comment. What is 'just right'? What is 'too much'? Who gets to decide? A relationship involves two parties. Discussion, negotiations and an empathetic mind are essential.