Kept from grands I need advice

Yogagirl the poster asked for advice when in fact she meant reassurance. And I’m wondering if, not only did she quote texts from a bible, but she targeted these unwisely?

Evangelists are very evangelical!

Immagamma, I think you need to take a step back and re-read your OP. Your behaviour does not come across as normal and most people would freak out at being sent Biblical texts.

Yogagirl I think your emotions surrounding your own situation is getting in the way of you clearly seeing this posters problem
She asked for advice but I m afraid I totally agree with Oldmeg she was looking for support that she is doing the right thing and 99% of posters on here don’t think she is doing the right thing
She is being incredibly judgemental of her daughter in law and worse she feels the need to inflict her ideas on everyone else and not only that she then blames them for wanting to distance themselves I very much doubt if the religion has entered her life the moment her son left home to be with his new family I would imagine and of courses we don’t know but I would imagine he was brought up deeply in it and the daughter in law was probably bombarded by this evangelism and they wisely decided their children wouldn’t have to go through his mother’s way of life This is sad all round for the children as well as the grandmother but it is of her own making
It is very telling that everyone else in the family is included in their life so there has to be a reason why she isn’t doesn’t there? and it’s very obvious what that problem is but until the poster realises that and keeps her thoughts quotes and prayers to herself the situation will not change
I would imagine it’s too late anyway the poster isn’t going to change unfortunately

immagamma I am very sorry you are suffering so much. It is very sad when life doesn’t happen how we expected it to. However what struck me from your posts, is your very obvious dislike for your dil. I wonder if you had maybe struggled to hide this like before the estrangement? Could this be the cause of the rift?

It’s so exciting to become a grandparent, but people very rarely talk about how it can also be difficult to make the transition from being a mother to ‘just’ a grandmother. I will confess that this was (and sometimes still is) something that I struggled with. At times I was quite unkind to my dil, something I now deeply regret.

I urge you to please have a really good think about what happened before the estrangement, look at your own behaviour. It was only when a friend of mine, who I I’ll be eternally grateful to, pointed out the ‘hostile’ and ‘disrespectful’ way I spoke to her about my dil, that I realised my mistakes. I apologised, no excuses, no ‘sorry if you were offeneded’ - (that is not an apology!) just a genuine sincere apology. I was fortunate that my dil was happy to forgive.

I know that there are some cases where grandparents are cut out inexplicably. However the rest of your family are still in contact, so there is every reason to believe that this situation is fixable.

I hope you are all able to find some peace in this situation.

Agree with the others......Bible verses are a No-no.

It's hard I know ....one of my daughters-in-law is very unkind to me, but I just grin and bear it for the sake of seeing my son and grandkids.
All the best xx

No, my post was not unkind and, yes, some grandparents are cut out and excluded because of problems within the GC's family, especially if there has been a family breakdown and reformation, but some family breakdowns are caused by the grandparents themselves. I have seen this in a friend's family. Not a complete breakdown but strictly controlled access, because of the GM's behaviour.

I doubt she is following this thread anymore. We are not supporting her in the way she expected.

Just because one family can contain and deal with a religious enthusiast in a family. It doesn't mean that another religious enthusiast is similar in their enthusiasm, nor that it is equally containable. Her language and behaviour are incompatible with the religion she professes.

Sorry, second paragraph should be at the end. Not sure what happened.

I must admit BlueBelle & Oldmeg and I don't want to badmouth my sister, as I love her & she me, but she has actually upset me a few times, even last week I had to say to her that I thought what she had said to me was unkind & uncompassionate, re my estD, and then I got a lot of bible verses, but I just tried to take from that what I could and just except that's how my sister is, she doesn't have children so doesn't understand the pain!

So I do have to agree that some do take their religious preachings too far, I'm not saying that about the OP though, I've no doubt she has always been religious, but did she only send quotes from the bible to her son & d.i.l after she was cut out [?]

Spaniel it has been put to me that my dislike of my s.i.l was the reason I was cut out, but I didn't dislike him before he cut me out and I thought we got on OK. It was only after 3mnths of my being cut off from my D&GC, getting death threats, having to put alarms all over my house & above my bed that I disliked him, getting phone calls in the middle of the night, so I came running down the stairs, nearly breaking my neck, to answer the phone thinking it was my estD needing help. Getting my Easter, birthday & Xmas cards I'd sent to my beloved GC ripped up & posted back through my door, that's when I disliked & feared him! So maybe OP disliked her d.i.l only after she was cut out too, which would be understandable, wouldn't it [?]

All I can say Gamma is, couldn't you arrange to see your son & GC outside of their and your house, in a park or similar and then take the advise of 99% of the posters on here and not bring up religion or quote verses, and by the way, that would be my advise too. Good luck

yogagirl I am aware of your terrible circumstances, and you have my deepest sympathy I can’t imagine being denied contact to my dgs. However if you read my post I simply asked if this was a possibility, I didn’t say that it was the reason. The OP has asked for advice and I attempted to use my personal experience to help, just as you are attempting to use yours.

The reason I asked, is because the rest of the OPs family still see the grandchildren, implying that there must be a reason. If the OP can work towards finding out the reason (whether she thinks it legitimate reason or not) steps can be taken to rebuild the realtionship. It can be very hard to objectively look at our behaviour, and so easy to hurt others without intending to.

Had my own dil not been so compassionate, understanding and forgiving, I too could have found myself in a very similar situation. It was the intervention of a friend that made me see the error of my ways. I may be a million miles away, but if I can I prevent somebody making the same mistake I was, then surely that’s the right thing to do?

Sending cards or notes of any kind, religious or not, could be seen as pestering since Immagamna had been asked to have no contact.

How unkind and judgemental some of these posts are. The OP is asking for advice, and has received helpful comments from some posters. Others have jumped on her, assuming that because they despise religion, the OP's son and DIL must do so too. We none of us know the reason for the estrangement, and it's by no means certain that the OP's own religious beliefs have anything to do with it. Obviously sending religious tracts to non-believers would be an unwelcome, even hostile, act - but perhaps not within the confines of a very devout family, which according to the OP is what we have here.

Immagamma my heart bleeds for you and I am truly sorry for the situation that your whole family is in.

I am going to say some things which the un-churched will find difficult to take and even understand but you are professing to be a Christian so hopefully you will understand.
You have said some not at all nice things about your DIL and I obviously don't know whether that is in reaction to her but that is largely irrelevant if you are trying to walk in 'the way'. You are hurt and angry but lashing out with verses from the Bible is clearly counter productive as you have seen. Nobody would ever react well to being 'smacked' with Bible verses and it would be natural for them to withdraw and refuse contact with someone doing such a thing. It is little wonder that people are turned off by, often well meaning, Christians who get things badly wrong, A well taught Christian will reflect the love of God to those around them as naturally as breathing - they just cannot help it and when the Holy Spirit is involved we often do not need words at all because people just 'know'. If you are already in a church you really need to talk to your pastor but if not then you need to find a sound church. Having lived in the USA I know there will be many churches where you can receive the teaching you need to understand the situation you are in but I also know that you live in a very spread out country and I am aware of the difficulties in finding a sound teaching pastor. I suggest that you go on to the internet and delve into www.gty.org and listen to Rev John MacArthur who is one of the most sound pastors I have ever come across. Search that site and particularly look for John's sermons on Psalm 51 which you may know is about David's repentance over Bathsheba. It does not matter what the actual sin is, it is learning about putting things right with God so that you can understand how to put things right with others. In V17 David says to God " .......a broken and contrite heart oh God you will not despise ......" Many people just do not understand that without true repentance you will never be able to put things right and you can be sure that until there is true repentance your attitude will never be conducive to building bridges.
Repentance is a humbling business and certainly not easy but it will help amazingly even where there is no reconcilliation with those from whom we have become estranged because often there comes an acceptance. After that you have to wait for the Lord to work, not just on everyone else involved but on you too. Just remember that it is the Lord who calls and He chooses whom He will call. He also calls on His people to pray. Prayer changes things and often in unexpected ways which we would not have anticipated.

I don't suppose this is a reply you expected but it is from an angle with which you are hopefully familiar and is intended to be from one sister to another. Blessings to you.

Synonymous Do you have to pray to God on your knees? This I did for a whole year, with a bible & my little GD's socks in my palms. I did this at the end of the day, before I went to bed, by my bed. At this time I hadn't sleep, or eat for the whole year, so I was very tired & eventually, with knees hurting, I changed to praying in bed, same way, I also pray during the day, at certain times like when I'm about to begin my yoga & when I do a headstand, as I find these times quite spiritual. I'm a Christian, but only go to church Easter, Xmas & for weddings & Christenings etc. I'd really like to go on remembrance day too, as I always did when my mum & dad were alive, but my work is all weekends and very difficult to get cover.

Excuse me for going down the religious path, but there's a question I've always puzzled over, I did ask my sister, but she said it was too long to go into at that time. Jesus is the son of God, yet my sister has said that 'The Father, The son & The Holy ghost' are one! I'm a confused.

There is a reason why it is called the Mystery of Faith , and many millions of words have been written about the Trinity, yogagirl

Yogagirl It is the doctrine of the trinity. That God is three people in one; Father, Son and Holy Spirit. This doctrine is often cloaked in mystery, but to me it is the equivalent of anybody's life. We are parents, children and workers. Sometimes fulfilling one role, sometimes doing several at once.

I thought Synonymous' reply probably the most relevant to the OP ( if she's still with us) but balked at the idea of God "choosing" who he would "call". Are we not all his children?

Thank you Mawbroon & Monica I'll have to gen up on the Trinity then. I suppose you would call me a light hearted Christian, as are my two DD. When my now estD was having her bands read, so had to go to church each week, I would dash to the church from my yoga class to join them. My DD really loved the church service, would joyfully sing all the hymns, yet her fiancée, who was a Catholic, hated going and quite spoilt the experience for my daughter, as he refused to join in with the hymns.

Going back to Remembrance day, my dad & my son would be in the parade, it was such a special day, with all the family gathered together, since my mum & dad have passed away, we don't do it anymore My problem is, I don't like going to church on my own, so the only one I can go with is my DD, we go to her church now, where she got married & where her DD got christened, it's the oldest church in England! really lovely. The church where my now estD got married, we feel we can't go there now, I did ask the vicar to help with the estrangement, but he said he couldn't as they don't attend anymore!

Well if we are Eglantine, where has he been for this last 5.5yrs of hell I've been through, and still going through. Where evil is prevailing over good!

I don't know Yogagirl. I have to admit it's all a mystery to me.

This is in answer to and for Yogagirl so please forgive the long post!

Yogagirl I would not consider myself religious and certainly don't feel qualified to answer much at all but one thing I know is that God loves each and every one of us and knows all our innermost thoughts, hopes and fears and wants a close relationship with us. The only way to a close relationship with anyone is to really get to know them and what naturally follows from that is to discover what grieves them and, to use an old fashioned word, to desist from those things.
Prayer is one of the ways we get to know God because it is basically talking. It isn't the easiest thing to do either as God is Spirit so we cannot physically see Him, although He has appeared to some people, and it takes a great deal of discernment to know what God is saying to us. That is why you need to work at getting to know God which is why we pray. A bit circular really. You can pray wherever you are and whatever you are doing and whenever you want to as He is always there. Thank goodness for that eh?! I often feel totally inappropriate about my how and where I am talking to God but since He created us in His image I know that He has a sense of humour so am relying on the fact that he had that humour first. I so hope I am right! The bible is full of teaching about how we can 'stand before the Lord'. He does not want us to grovel before Him and David danced before the Lord in worship. I like that! Sometimes we fall on our faces before God but that is about us and where we are and not about Him. Neither is it inherently wrong of course but God's teaching is to help us to stand.
You cannot go far wrong in starting with how I was originally taught by using the acronym ACTS. This stands for Adoration, Confession, Thanksgiving and Supplication and if you get it in the right order it is much better. You need to approach in the right way as nobody likes someone they love to rush up to them with demands and forget to give due respect.
I also use 'arrow prayers' just talking to Him about something that occurs or I think about. You don't always need words either - see Romans 8:26.
When you are getting to know someone you cannot hope to know all about them at once or very quickly and often you need to accept their word. God's word is the bible and in it he speaks to us about Himself in three persons, the Trinity, right from the very beginning and in fact it is so important that it is contained in the very first chapter, Genesis. It is faith and we need to have faith that when He tells us something then it is so. There are some things we will never understand this side of eternity but if you trust God, who is truth, then it does not matter. It is very human to want to know everything and I can remember telling my own children 'you don't need to know' and 'trust me' and that is exactly what God says to His children!
Whilst I appreciate that your work is at weekends not every church meets only on a Sunday. Many, like my own, have many different meetings throughout the week and at all hours. If yours doesn't then find one which does as it is impossible to be a Christian on your own, you need teaching and the fellowship of other believers. Watch what happens to a burning coal when you take it out of the fire!
I am happy for you to PM me if you want to. X

Thank you very much Synonymous for taking the time to write that long post and very interesting. I work in the evenings also, so very limited time to go to church, but I would really like to go more often, I'll take a look at my DD church to see if they have any service that I could go to when I've free time to go. xx

I feel really sad for your situation it must be really painful. I do however agree that the bible verses should stop. Also, I notice that you are quite disparaging of your daughter in law. I of course don’t know her but I think it is a no no to put down your child’s partner and the mother of his children no matter what you think of them as that could cause conflict for your son as his loyalties for his mother and partner could be divided and normally the mother of his children will win.

You say that you have apologised on a number of occasions and your apology, especially from your daughter in law, has not been accepted. I wonder what are you apologising for? Is there something in particular? If you genuinely have nothing to apologise for then don’t apologise. I do believe that if your son has not told you what the problem is and you really don’t know then he is being cruel.

Now having said all that, you say that other family members are allowed access, so, could you ask one of these family members to mediate for you and maybe at least try and ascertain the reason for this situation. At the end of the day there may not be a happy outcome from this and so I, if I were you, would stop contacting them and give them, especially your son, the space to come to you if they/he should want to at some point. This will be very hard but you need to put your energies into yourself now and try and enjoy the things you have. At some point your grandchildren will want to find you. I hope you have other people in your life that you can give your love and time to. I wish you well and hope this situation resolves soon.

Eglantine I think that it is another mystery because the bible also says that God knew us from before the foundation of the world and knows who are His. I think that shows that God knows who will respond positively to Him and those who will reject Him. We still are all given and all have the opportunities to come to Him but only God knows who actually will and those who will not and I think that is why it says in the bible that 'they are without excuse'. We all need to be aware of the choices we make and are totally free to make. In the end it is all very simple.