How long can this go on

agnurse can I ask are you a grandparent?

What is AC and NCAC. Some of us cannot follow the thread. No help in Acronym section.

Jaycee an excellent description of what gas lighting is and the destructive consequences of such behaviour.

catta10 years of non contact is a terrible burden for you to live with; I'm sorry. Usually when we're asked if we have children we say we have a son and no grand children because that sadly is the reality.

We felt we were foolish to invest money in our ES's house by way of a deposit but we weren't foolish, any more than you have been. We were able to give some financial assistance and did so out of love for our son. The fools are the AC who turn their backs on their parents who've done so much for them and deprive their own children of their GP's.

As has been explained Nananolife AC is adult child and NCAC is non contact adult child. If it helps EAC is estranged adult child, ES is estranged son and ED is estranged daughter. DS and DD are used (dear son/daughter) so the poster can differentiate between the child they do have contact with.

I appreciate your frustration but for those posters who regularly post about non contact use the abbreviations for speed and convenience.

That's so true Bridgeit there is a surprisingly great sense of relief when you feel you've taken back some control by not waiting around for something that may never happen, but it's very hard when you miss your AC and GC.

NotSpaghetti controlling partners are often a factor in this situation and as you say it can make it virtually impossible for the husband/wife to maintain a relationship with their own parents and other family members. Even long standing friends find themselves out of the loop if they're not wanted around by the partner.

Oh the pain families cause each other. I have had no contact, or very limited contact with my youngest sister for the last 25 years. The previous 20 years before I severed contact was extremely trying as my sister blamed me for our father leaving my mother. I was 17 at the time and was leaving to do nurse training. This destroyed a once close relationship and the ensuing hardship, struggle and fighting to keep a working relationship came to a head when my daughter was 12.
I kept in contact with my mother, seeing her every 2-3 weeks but it wasn't easy.
Now 25 years later I lead my own life, untouched by her manipulations, and amused by it. Also, as a result of these issues my daughter and grandchildren do not see their cousins or aunts/uncles.
As hard as it seems, things will settle down, and you will begin to adjust and to accept that your daughter has made her choice, for what ever reasons. Keep and maintain close contact with the rest of the family, and host your own get-together, inviting everyone. That way you are showing that you are not shutting her out, and are not holding grudges, past hurts or resentment. It should also ease the tension between the rest of the family.
And maybe, just maybe, there's no logical explanation for the separation.

It seems to you that your whole family is bowing to the wishes of this controlling AC, who is upsetting everyone. Can you have a family meal/coffee and cake (not extended family or GC if it's possible) and air this problem briefly, calmly, factually and if poss without blame? Maybe just say 'I seem to have upset some of you and I'm not sure why. I'd really like to know so I can change things.' Not an easy thing to do and it may lead to a row, or things you don't want to hear, but at least it's not going behind anyone's back and those not in the know will not be so bewildered.

Or you could try meeting up just with her and see what she says.

Otherwise, I'd back off and keep your peace, ask Nearly to contact you when she's free and then wait until she does. Invite her, siblings and GC to your house as usual if there are family events. Leave it up to her to come to you but write/send cards to GC to keep in touch with lots of 'hope to see you soon' messages.

Your family situation sounds complex and mentally exhausting, I’m sure you must be feeling incredible grief at the potential loss of your GC. I do feel, however, that you must look after yourself in this, as it sounds as though things are unlikely to be resolved. As painful as it may be you need to value yourself as a person, mentally try and take a step back away from this negative person and get on with filling your life with other things that you enjoy. I wish you well.

Namsnanny, please ignore anything admire says, she never gives any support to grandparents ensuring this agony. There is a thread on here for estranged grandparents, go there and they will support you in this terrible situation.

Sorry, didn't preview, ignore anything agnurse says.

Namsnanny I am very sorry to hear how you are suffering. You certainly are not alone, there are many grans and grandpas who suffer badly because of Adult Children. I am one too.

I have to say some things you won't want to hear, I am sorry. You said; I've been doing EVERYHING Nearly has required of me. The first thing therefore is to STOP pandering to this selfish and untrustworthy woman. You are going to need to step back. I know you love her. I love my children. But I still can't change the one who deliberately hurts me and who appears to have a personality problem. Ask yourself, if you were her age and met her, say at a group for Mums and children, would you like her, assuming that somehow you also knew how she treated her mother? Would you be friends with someone who behaves like this? You are being manipulated. I cannot say what her problem is but I imagine if you googled some of her most salient characteristics and behaviours you would be shocked about what would come up. You are going to need to show her you do not need her. It will mean you see the DGC less often. On that point, as some others have said, you are expecting to see them far more often than many of us see ours. Admittedly I live a long way away, but I see my GC about once or twice a year. I've had to come to terms with that. I have to build up my own life independently of my children.

You have a difficult AC who will continue to torture you the more you feed her with your interactions. If you give her the silent treatment it will be the shock of her life for her, she really will not believe that you can live without her. Then she might get her act together. But don't expect much. People with her nature seldom change. They may look as if they have become kind and loving but do be carful, they can put on a very convincing act to get what they want.

I am so sorry to be so blunt, but I do think your best way forward is to build up your life independently of this AC. She will only give you more distress if you don't. If you find you don't really need her she may start to treat you with respect.

Wishing you strength and happiness. Please start planning nice things to do for yourself, little projects you like to do, seeing your friends, being happy with your life independently of the offspring. They'll come to you when they need you, have no fear. With love, L

I'm with Bluebelle and others who haven't a clue what AC means, well I do now that it's been explained.
I hate all the acronyms on Gransnet and often skip posts that contain too many, it's just gobbledegook.
Whatever is the problem I hope you can find a solution soon.

Smileless20128 Just read you deeply moving reply to Namsnanny and had to send love and best wishes to you. Though not so terribly estranged as you, yet fearing it, I have one child who has such a difficult personality and who, from childhood, has caused me many tears and feelings of despair, and now she bullies me regularly and makes me feel ill. Yet I am helpless, as I know you understand.

I have had to accept that I am the parent of a person who may have some aspects of a personality disorder. Some people really like her, she is charismatic and very clever. However she is dangerous and you never know where you are with her. I am a retired neuropsychologist, so not a Clinical Psych and therefore not in a position to make diagnoses and anyway it's invidious to think you can with your own family. Obviously though, I see that she is impossible and that to be too involved with her leads to deep distress for me. So I have to keep away and try and remain friends.

I have seen so much of this. Our society has bred a different attitude in our younger people about our age group. So often I hear "I would not dare speak to/treat my mother like that."

You are such a kind soul and what you wrote was just right, from the heart of one who knows the pain. God bless you. (I hope mentioning God doesn't bother you - it's just my way.) Take care of yourself and here's to all Grans who are trying to be brave and manage with that keenly piercing agony of difficult adult children!

I hate the acronyms too. And why an acronym for dear has to be put in front ? God knows eg DS instead of son!!
That over. I would just like to extend my sympathy. I think there is something in this ‘no contact’ belief thing though it could easily feed paranoia too. Where did it start I wonder? Did it start on mumsnet?
You will have to be very brave and resourceful. None of us have Rights in truth. We rely on kindness and goodwill. When that is absent we are up shit creek (oh dear no acronym for that one ).
So pull up you bootstraps. Face the situation you are in. And then put it aside. A mindfulness class can help. I find being in a room with quiet company of restful souls very comforting.
I have a condition that means that with emotional stress my ascending aneurysm could rupture and kill me. It’s hard to live with a condition which the first symptom is death. I am being monitored but short of open heart surgery when it gets so large the risk is larger than the risks (and cost) of surgery there is nothing I can do except be scared witless most of the time. I mention it because it has put the awful games my dil plays into perspective I am not going to let her kill me.
So I have emotionally distanced myself from dil. Stopped trying with her because when they are are of that no contact mind nothing helps. All it does is make you feel more powerless. Step back things might change for the better but accept they are out of your control and nurture yourself.
Be the best you can.

In the Opening post the Poster says that family gatherings are now held at the home of the child who is causing this distress and the other children feel guilty going when their mother is not invited. Why do they go? Does the NCAC have some hold over them? They surely could say they will only go if everyone is invited including their mother. It must be possible for another child to be the host and invite all or for someone to arrange a meal at a pub for everyone. If the NCAC does not wish to go that is their prerogative. If the other children had a united front it is possible the situation could be resolved.

I think it comes from the fear of being CO as well Welshwife.

We found it very difficult at the beginning of our estrangement when Mr. S.'s mother was seeing our ES and our GC despite the way we were being treated. She feared being CO too which, in the end she was.

Having no children of his own, I think our DS was worried he'd lose touch with his nephews and of course his brother as well.

Earlier when I said "I have one child who.." I should have made it clearer that I have two others. Like OP (Original Poster) I have some trouble with the two "normal" ones caused by the machinations of the difficult one. So my heart goes out to all grandparents who are struggling with powerful AC (adult children) giving them grief. It's just a thousand times worse than dealing with a difficult child.
HannahLoisLuke I agree that lots of acronyms make reading very difficult, but it was explained quite quickly. Actually, given that many of us have adult children I think the initials AC for Adult Child are quite sensible. At least,
even though you were bamboozled by all the initials, you still felt it in your heart to send kind wishes to people suffering from the cruel agony that estrangement from Grandchildren brings!

catta5 Oh Catta! How sad, no, how agonising! I agree, all you can do is try and get on with your life. I am so sorry you've had such bad luck with your health, that somehow seems to make the cruelty of children sharper, I find. I am disabled and because of my late husband's psychopathic attitudes I have hardly any money. I sometimes feel that the children just think I am no use to them now and should be on the rubbish heap. The things one of them says are unimaginably cruel! You are a wonderful Gran to give them such a generous gift. Did they accept it? Did they thank you? Take care of yourself, with love L

On going to sleep watching real life murder stories - I too have done this! I think also it is because it puts my own distress into perspective.

I have to say I agree with Welshwife, and also wonder why your other children agree to go to family occasions that exclude you. I should hope they do feel guilty, but why are they colluding in your “nearly” child’s unkind behaviour in the first place?

Cross posted, Smileless. Thank you for your insight.

Nananolife......now what the hec is TTFN.....tatafornow? ?

Thank you luzdoh for your very kind response to my post. Thank you for posting 'God bless you', that meant a lot to me.

It always upsets me to see for the first time the posts of hurting parents and GP's who are living with estrangement or the fear of being estranged.

As well as this thread there is another offering support for those living this nightmare so there is support to be found here on GN and who better to open your heart to than those who understand your pain and suffering because they
are in pain and suffering too.

I think we all come to realise in the end that there's nothing we can do to resolve this situation. You cannot talk to someone who refuses any and all communication. You cannot hope to find a way to reconciliation if that isn't what they want.

Life is for living, not for grieving. It is possible to find peace and happiness despite the loss of our AC and GC, not easy but possible.

I thought my life was over when we lost our son and GC. It didn't seem possible to have a life that he was no longer a part of, but it is.

My heart goes out to everyone of you who has had the courage to share the pain of your estrangements. It really does help to know that you're not alone.

Catta5 they had no right to accept that money if they don't want you in their life. To not even thank you is deplorable!!!

What does AC and NCAC mean?

AC is adult child and NCAC is no contact adult child Camelotclub; like the name by the way (BTW).

lollee after we'd been cut out, the money we provided for the deposit on their house was regarded as a means to control them.

ES (estranged son) told Mr. S. that that was the real reason we'd invested a large amount in their home. So
Mr. S. said in that case he should return the money. That was 5 years ago and we're still waiting. I suggested it should be a refund as had that been our true intention, it clearly hadn't worked.

Reading this I felt very sad for you Namsnanny . I have been thinking about ideas to try. It feels as you see it as a kind of war in which you are on the losing side. This doesn't have to be. If you want to regain some control in your own life you will need to be proactive and take charge again. Stop doing everything she wants, she sounds very controlling. Make your own life full and exciting. Be unavailable, enjoy times with your own siblings. Why don't you throw a party or a gathering and invite everyone? Don't be upset if your estranged child doesn't come, just celebrate the fact that the others do, and keep having events. Make it fun and don't talk about anything heavy. Is there anything about your own house that makes it a better venue....bigger garden.... have some fun, it sounds as if it is this that is lacking in your life . What about taking up a hobby or as someone else suggested do some volunteering at a local children's club or school etc. so you have contact with children. Be positive and up beat when you talk about it to your children. I am sorry if this all sounds a bit simplistic but sometimes desperate people can't help but push others away with their desperation.
There is a saying which I have followed a lot in life (can't remember who said it) but it goes like this... 'if you play as if it means nothing when it means everything, then you are a hard man to beat'. There has to be a reason apart from pity that your children want to see you. It is up to you how you make that happen. Be strong and be happy.

I have no experience of a family which behaves in this way and I understand it must be heart breaking. I know, personally, I wouldn't reward any of the adult children here by leaving them any sort of inheritance because none of them are making any effort to make things better for you. I would bypass them and leave everything to the grandchildren ( unless they are adults too and can make their own contact decisions but also can't be bothered) and leave it in trust until they are 21 or 25.