How long can this go on

Hello - I feel so sad for your situation and anyone going through anything similar. I am relatively new to the group and sometimes have to give up reading due to all the abbreviations. Is there a list somewhere or are we expected to just know what they mean? It really gives me a headache trying to understand them. Thank you.

Toxic relationship. Withdraw deep breath and don't fall into trap of either trying to analyse or apportion blame. Sounds like mental health issues here somewhere, not 'normal' civilised behaviour of care love or simple respect. I cant decipher all the characters but I recognise your anguish

Blue bell....naughty naughty! On the one hand language is constantly evolving, on the other its no good if people cant understand what you are talking about.

I have SWWABINOK

( son who was awful but is now ok)

Thanks Jaycee for the description of gaslighting, sounds unpleasant .....glad I don’t know anyone who indulges in it.

It gives me so much hope that others are sick of these blooming acronyms they take any pleasure out of trying to help someone, by the time you ve translated the abbreviations you ve lost the gist of the sometimes very long story
Are we all so tied up we can’t write grandchild or son in law which could also be a sister in law or even ‘sausages I love’ or adult child. we complain about youngsters and text speak and are just as lazy and as for this dear and darling stuff it does my head in Now you can all have a go at me

I think my way of dealing with it would be to organise regular events at my house, maybe once a month at least, and invite everyone including NCAC and her dh and DC. She won't come, but if the family have a good time it will get back to her and maybe she will want to come occasionally. Summertime is the ideal time, BBQs in the garden, or little snacky bits, hot sausage rolls, baked potatoes, salads etc. Bunting and music! We're forecast a lovely hot summer so now's the right time! I don't know what else to suggest, and obviously it's a faff, but might be worth it.

I remember when one of my DC was going through a bad patch at school, I used to organise stuff at the weekends and no one wanted to be left out! It helped cure the problem.

Sorry to hear you're going through all this. Good luck.

Gas lighting is the constant undermining of one person/people by another pollyperkins. It's a character assassination and it's purpose is to eventually alienate the victim and encourage others to alienate them as well.

I uderstand the Acronyms but what is gaslighting?

luzdoh everything you have posted is spot on. The way they work, controlling and manipulating those around them. My goodness, they're so good at it that they can even have you believing that the false accusations they make against you must be true.

This is what you experience with your own D and this has been our experience of our ES's wife. Apart from his brother, he has no contact with any of his own family. Friends he'd had and been close to for years have gradually disappeared.

There was a time when he did stand up to her, discounted some of the ridiculous accusations she made about me but in the end, I don't know, I guess he didn't have it in him any more.

The worse thing is that he himself told lies, made up 'reasons' for going non contact. Just before the final cut out, she came down to our house, we lived just 15 doors away, and she was like a woman possessed. Screaming at me, jabbing her finger just millimeters from my face it was truly horrifying.

Then she yelled at me "you've done this to me, you've made me like this" so I replied "No .... you've always been like this". It was like being in the eye of a storm, the screaming stopped and there was this weird sense of calm. I knew then it was all over because what a narcissist hates more than anything is to be seen for what they really are. Once they've been 'revealed' you're out and out for good.

I read a few years ago on a site about the narcissist personality that the only way to win the game is to stop playing; we stopped playing.

After enduring the deafening silence for 4 years, catching glimpses of our son and GC, never knowing if or when we'd see them because we lived so close, we moved 18 months ago and it was the best thing we could have done.

We send cards to our GC for their birthdays and at Christmas but nothing to our son. Two years ago I wrote to him to say goodbye, explaining why I was doing so and that I did and always would love him.

His reply was so vile that it took my breath away so I replied by thanking him for showing me that I'd done the right thing. This is the extent of her manipulation. He's changed so much both physically and emotionally that I don't know him anymore.

You said of Namsnanny's D that she will eat her alive. Our son's wife would do the same given half the chance and tragically I believe he would too.

oldandbold you spoke of a " better but still wary relationship" with your close relation. I honestly don't think I could ever be in a relationship with our ES again. The thought of seeing him makes me feel sick, when someone mentions his name my stomach turns over.

Shelagh explanations of the acronyms used have been explained. I'm sorry that you find them ridiculous but the reason we are all posting is to offer support and what little advice we have to those enduring this 'living bereavement'. That's what's important here, not the acronyms some of us choose to use.

oldbatty I crown thee queen of common sense!
In other words I completely agree. On both counts.
Let's have a pause for a cuppa

Tbh family is over rated

Op now everybody is jumping in with their stuff and a few little scuffles have broken out. I would urge you today, to find a BACP registered therapist and make an appointment.

123kitty You asked if other family members have been told what originally caused the problem? I think I may venture an answer based on the OP (Original Post): Whatever the difficult AC (Adult Child) tells her siblings about her mother, or about anything really, almost certainly is not true. Also, they probably would not feel able to discuss it with their mother to give her a chance to say what happened from her perspective which, remember was one where she says "I've been doing EVERYHING Nearly has required of me." She points out very strongly that the "Nearly NCAC" (Nearly No Contact Adult Child, ie the problem one called "Nearly") is mendacious and manipulative and that the other offspring feel they are caught the middle.

Having a personality disordered child in a family tears a family apart. No one knows what to do or believe. People do not believe that a person will do the things the disordered person does, they can't take it in. They dance around the disordered person, treading on eggshells, giving in to demands because the threats are so huge, trying to cover-up the things that are going on in their dysfunctional family, pretending everything is fine. I truly believe that poor Namsnanny cannot find a solution which would mean seeing the GCh and everyone together regularly without problems all the while this daughter has her hold over this family in this way. I think, for her sanity, she might do best to take a break from the distress and invest in her own life away from the GCh, seeing her friends, doing things she likes, keeping busy with things she enjoys. To rely on our Children and GCh too much for our happiness is to make ourselves very vulnerable. With a daughter like this "Nearly" girl, poor Namsnanny cannot afford to be vulnerable. The Nearly daughter will eat her alive. As soon as she can live without needing this daughter's compliance to let her see the children, the bonds the daughter has over her will break. Her other children may in time see what their sibling is doing.

Namsnanny I am so sorry you are having to endure this. I feel that luzdoh may have some real insight into the situation from her own sad experience. I have also been the target of this sort of behaviour. It was from a close relation. It is very difficult for anyone who has not experienced the gaslighting, gossip,silent treatment etc., to understand how terrible it is. Especially as the behaviour is confined to you,the target, and to the rest of your children your difficult daughter is probably charming and ‘normal’. There is some good advice especially from luzdoh on here. I found Father Ted end to end helped me relax enough to get sleep. BTW I also found moving away an answer to the problem and now have a better but still wary relationship with the close relation. Hope your life gets better soon!

Could some of the pulling away be due to your s-i-l ? Mine was very controlling and he gradually persuaded my DD that her friends were the 'wrong' sort and they stopped seeing all but one (and that was mainly because she ignored him, which annoyed him enormously and he was extremely rude about her) Then it was too far to go and see our side of the family although he happily arranged to travel a similar distance to go and see 'his' friends from Uni. All done very gradually and my daughter has since said she didn't fight him because he played it along the lines of 'if you really love me'. They are very clever at cutting people out.

Welshwife You make a very important point regarding why do the other children give in regarding going to her house in my humble opinion.
I can answer this in terms of my own family: The very difficult, bullying, daughter takes over and in her domineering way always gets what she wants. She will do this by the most extreme behaviour, bullying, threatening, forcing the others into submission. Unless you have encountered the lengths these people will go to, it is hard to believe what they will do. When we were moving house, she refused to pack anything. On the day the removal men were there, she unpacked the boxes in her room, got in bed, and refused to do anything. Yet she said she liked the new house more. It was better for her in fact. She was 16. Now, as an adult in her 30s, she always gets her own way with all of us no matter what it is. Her older 2 sisters don't even try to disagree any more. It just isn't worth WW3 erupting. Once I was supposed to go to her for Christmas, having been given very precise instructions on how long I could stay. I am disabled, in constant pain requiring morphine daily and have various medical conditions and get very bad migraines. Cometh the day before travel and I had flu - real flu, couldn't turn over in bed, let alone walk to the loo. Managed to phone explaining. WW3 threatened. Day of journey I am worse - told I must have Doctor's letter proving how ill I am!!!! I can't remember a lot about that day. Told I must travel on C'mas day - next day then, and return the following day. This a 4-5 hour drive I would need to make plus taking my dogs to kennels on C'mas day.., and me very ill. I could not do it, impossible. WW3 erupts, she has everyone, both my other daughters and their husbands and even older GC thinking Granny could not be bothered to see them for C"mas! I was at home, shivering in pain without food, only just managing by now to crawl to the loo, on my own, alone...

The Personality Disorder these people seem to have is called Narcissistic Personality Disorder. To them, life is all about them. They demand attention and they feed off it. They set up arguments and rows and they manipulate everyone. They use the famous "Gaslighting" mentioned earlier to drive a person crazy, they set one person against another, they make people on the outside (e.g. work colleagues, people they only see a short time) think they are wonderful. Often they are pillars of the community - outside the home. Indoors it's a different matter, everything and everybody are their 6possessions^, there to enhance their status. They have no empathy. They will go to any lengths to get their own way. Theories about childhood and parenting style are given for the reason for the condition. These are theories and research has discounted them. My difficult child was difficult from day one. At day two on leaving the hospital a nurse said "I'm glad that one's going, it has done nothing but scream all the time." She did scream all the time unless I breast fed her or later carried her around with me. She screamed so piercingly that I was scared neighbours would phone the Police, so I gave in.... Now we are still giving in.

I disagree with welshwife- if the rest of your family refuse invitations from which you are excluded, won't that result in even less contact between the family. Could backing you be the reason older family members are no longer invited? Have family members still in contact been told what originally caused the problem, have they passed this information on to you.

I don't understand the Acronyms either - They're certainly not in the ones listed! Get the general gist though and sympathise completely. Don't think it's that unusual these days, unfortunately. So sad!

Oh my goodness, all those initials, thank you to those who explained what they mean.
I feel sorry for Namsnanny, but it is hard to understand,I hope things work out well for you in the future.

I’ve almost given up these because I have no idea what people are talking about NCAC NACA ETC. It would be so simple to type it in without the ‘dear’ Or ‘darling’ before the person. It’s pretty ridiculous and I have almost resigned!

I have no experience of a family which behaves in this way and I understand it must be heart breaking. I know, personally, I wouldn't reward any of the adult children here by leaving them any sort of inheritance because none of them are making any effort to make things better for you. I would bypass them and leave everything to the grandchildren ( unless they are adults too and can make their own contact decisions but also can't be bothered) and leave it in trust until they are 21 or 25.

Reading this I felt very sad for you Namsnanny . I have been thinking about ideas to try. It feels as you see it as a kind of war in which you are on the losing side. This doesn't have to be. If you want to regain some control in your own life you will need to be proactive and take charge again. Stop doing everything she wants, she sounds very controlling. Make your own life full and exciting. Be unavailable, enjoy times with your own siblings. Why don't you throw a party or a gathering and invite everyone? Don't be upset if your estranged child doesn't come, just celebrate the fact that the others do, and keep having events. Make it fun and don't talk about anything heavy. Is there anything about your own house that makes it a better venue....bigger garden.... have some fun, it sounds as if it is this that is lacking in your life . What about taking up a hobby or as someone else suggested do some volunteering at a local children's club or school etc. so you have contact with children. Be positive and up beat when you talk about it to your children. I am sorry if this all sounds a bit simplistic but sometimes desperate people can't help but push others away with their desperation.
There is a saying which I have followed a lot in life (can't remember who said it) but it goes like this... 'if you play as if it means nothing when it means everything, then you are a hard man to beat'. There has to be a reason apart from pity that your children want to see you. It is up to you how you make that happen. Be strong and be happy.

lollee after we'd been cut out, the money we provided for the deposit on their house was regarded as a means to control them.

ES (estranged son) told Mr. S. that that was the real reason we'd invested a large amount in their home. So
Mr. S. said in that case he should return the money. That was 5 years ago and we're still waiting. I suggested it should be a refund as had that been our true intention, it clearly hadn't worked.

AC is adult child and NCAC is no contact adult child Camelotclub; like the name by the way (BTW).

What does AC and NCAC mean?