Support for all who are living with estrangement

I'm wondering agnurse if you are someone who is angry at your own parents and went no contact? You seem very angry at us all and nothing you say has any bearing whatsoever on my situation. I can't, and wouldn't try, to speak for anyone else on here.
You seem to think you know what's going on with the rest of us, but sorry, as far as I'm concerned you really don't.
If you do have a painful situation of your own to share I would be happy to listen.

Sorry, I allowed myself to get cross with that last poster and I'd meant to write something really supportive. I'll just send kind thoughts to those who are suffering today joyfulnanna, Aquamarine, hdh74,Carolina55, Ungranned, Mccavity2, each with a unique story and yet all the same hurt.

I will share a thought my sister said to me when I told her what was happening and the harsh words of my SiL. She has known him for almost 25 years now and this is what she said about him saying hurtful things about me.

She said, 'Do NOT accept those things. They are not the person you are and I don't know another person who thinks those things about you.'

Whilst I admit we have to take a good hard look at ourselves and wonder how much we may have contributed to the situation, we know that our intentions were never bad. So yes, I am refusing to accept that I am a bad person. I'm lucky in that my DD and GS visit me and now when I go there, my SiL moves out, but it's weird and not a happy situation.

Ginny42

Agnurse
You have a right to post your opinion but please have the grace to understand the total anguish of being blocked by your own children from seeing your extended family. It is so ducking selfish, that is with no consideration of how the grandchild feels. Yes we protect our children but it is cruel to deny them the company and contact with grandparents who are willing and able to have a relationship with them. There is so much suffering out there, children in poverty, children being neglected by lazy parents, people that couldn't give a damn about kids, or are predators. The simple joy of being with your grandparents is not something to take for granted. For God's sake, they don't live with you so can't you just be kind and courteous to older folk. We may have said something you didn't like but I can tell you, it's probably the other way around and we are expected to bite our tongues. Yes I know that's the archetypal grandparent but we are all human, and imperfect. Instead of all this passive aggressive behaviour, which it is when an AC stops you seeing your grandchild, they should have the guts to talk and resolve any irritations and not allow things to get out of hand. But no, they haven't developed the skills to do this or been inclined to think further than their selfish needs.. That's my view anyway. Sorry

Ginny
Three of my closest friends said exactly the same when they heard how my daughter was treating me. In fact they told her they don't believe it.. They are my support and my partner too but his listening skills are being somewhat stretched and he has told me to forget my GS as the hurt I feel is stressing him out. Its putting a horrible strain on our relationship because it affects me so deeply every day. It's been nearly 7 months since I've seen that beautiful boy and heard him speak. I can't seem to come to terms with the likelihood that it will go on. I hope and pray he is being well cared for. That's on my mind alot. His mother my AC, is not how I thought she would turn out. In fact I don't recognise her anymore (behaviour). She was always a quiet considerate, loving and kind girl. Willing to help others but what she has become is completely alien to me.

My parents are lovely. So are MIL and SFIL. FIL is not. Here's a rundown of why we don't see him and his family:

-FIL questioned why DH and I were together, as he said I wasn't very attractive and obviously didn't take care of myself
-FIL body-shamed me and our impressionable young daughter (who subsequently began to have some issues with food)
-FIL felt that it was appropriate to bring his children around GFIL, who had a history of committing acts with his own daughter that should have gotten him sent to prison. He had also been an emotionally and physically abusive father and was emotionally abusive to his GC - they were scared stiff of him as he would get into towering rages. FIL's response: "I never saw that side of him."
-FIL financially abused us while renting a home from us
-FIL goes through periods where he can't be bothered to have anything to do with us and periods where he longs for contact, including guilt-tripping our daughter because she hadn't responded to an email in what he considered an appropriate amount of time

Hubby maintains minimal contact with FIL but I refuse to have any. I have told Hubby that FIL will NOT be meeting any future children that we have together.

Do you think this man is safe to have around children? I think it's quite telling that his two CIL (me and BIL's wife) can't stand him. I cannot speak for SIL's fiance but I know FIL doesn't see him that often.

agnurse I have thought about this long and hard, and have read many of your back posts on Gransnet. I have come to the conclusion that your supercilious attitude, particularly on this thread which is titled Support, is actually to be pitied. I feel sorry for you, you have absolutely no insight into the heartbreak people are going through it must be awful to be so void of empathy. So sorry for you.

Actually we do not have contact with my sister and BIL - their choice. They decided to break off contact with my parents. Ironically, I feel it WAS a situation where they were not justified in doing so. (There's evidence that BIL is controlling. Not to mention my parents are lovely.) I decided not to let it affect me. It's sad, absolutely, but I'm not chasing after them. Although I said nothing about the estrangement between them and our parents, they decided to break off contact with me and our other siblings as well.

agnurse where there is a proven history of inappropriate behaviour with family members, I think none of us would question the rights of parents to withdraw contact from those grandparents. However, we must assume that such conduct is uncommon and please don't assume that any one of us posting here is guilty of behaviour on a par with abuse.

I'm very sorry to read the catalogue of abuse from your FiL and it is abuse. If you are young enough to have more children then you must do whatever you need to do to keep your DD, any other children and yourself safe. So please now accept that I am not against you, but we had no idea where you were coming from, so naturally found it offensive to be aggressively challenged by a stranger.

Take good care of yourself. x

Agnurse. Families are complicated, no one is saying they are not. But Megan is right, this thread is for support and you have explained your situation which seem to have much in common with the people here who are devastated at losing contact with GC and need some advice. What I am saying is that whilst your story is regrettable with your relationship with your FIL who sounds very disturbed, it doesn't really help those of us who are looking for support, therefore it's not really the place for you to post. I do wish you and your children well and I do think talking is the way forward but as I say, this particular forum thread will probably not help with this.

Ironically, I feel it WAS a situation where they were not justified in doing so.

You're so right agnurse, it is indeed ironic. You feel that their going no contact wasn't justified in exactly the same way that posters on this thread feel that their lack of contact with their families isnt justified. But I don't see anyone here, or anywhere else, having the gall to tell you that your sister and BIL had damned good reason to block you and your family out of their lives. And the reason why they haven't don't that agnurse is because:
1. They don't know what led up to the estrangement
2. They have wish to add to any unhappiness and anxiety that your filial estrangement might be causing
3. They are compassionate, kind and helpful people.

You could learn a thing or two from them. Don't keep adding your constant, eternal, never changing comments of "It's not your concern what xxxxx does" or "In my opinion they were justified in cutting you off because..."
Because the truth is you just don't know; anymore than we know why your sister no longer wants to speak to you. although I may take a guess.

I'm sorry to hear your story agnurse - your FIL sounds like an absolute nightmare. And yes, abusive. And I'm sorry about your other family members breaking off contact.

However, I promise you my story is absolutely nothing like yours. And I would imagine every person here feels their own story is different in some ways too. You seem to project your feelings about the awful things that happened to you from your FIL onto the posters here who have no contact with their own family for all sorts of different reasons.

I am still waiting for my DS to tell me why we are estranged. His last words were, 'I know I'm angry with you but I don't know why yet, and when I'm ready to talk to you about it I will, until then if you really love me prove it by accepting no contact'
I'm still waiting for him to be ready, nearly 3 years on.
I'm sure I've made mistakes along the way, and will do all I can to make them right when/if he's ready to tell me what they are. I know I haven't, and wouldn't, do any of the things your FIL did to you.
I understand your anger now agnurse, but please, don't assume we're all the same as your FIL and if we can be there for you too, we will.

I have been advised to make an application for contact. Has anyone else considered this?

Joyfulnana

A few things to consider:

1. The laws in your area. In many jurisdictions you can only apply directly if the child's parents are not together. Otherwise you may have to ask leave of the court to apply. Some jurisdictions don't allow you to ask leave or apply at all if the parents are together.

2. The cost. Lawyers aren't cheap. You'll need to consider that it will also cost your DD money to go to court. That could impact your GS.

3. The results. It sounds as if you may have a good case for getting contact. But if the court does not find in your favour, you run the risk of never being allowed to see your GS again.

Meanwhile I'd suggest waiting. Your daughter has indicated that she doesn't want contact. Sadly, the more you try to push her, the more likely it is that she will become even more entrenched in her desire not to have contact with you.

agnurse the law in England is quite different from Canada.

Correct megan123; that has been pointed out several times. Giving advice on law practices that don't apply to the UK is very misleading.

Joyfulnana; I'm fairly sure that there are a couple of other grandparents, who are in the UK and who post on this site, have experience of applying to the courts for contact and they'll be able to give your first hand advice.

Chewbacca
That's good but who/where are they? I have posted a few times and nothing has come back. Perhaps the moderators of this site can help put me in touch. Thanks x

You could try starting a new post, perhaps under "Ask a Gran", and see if some one pops up for you? Nothing lost if you try on there.

agnurse
You seem to be indifferent to feedback about your coldly judgemental and superior attitude and disturbingly unaware of any problems that could be associated with portraying certainty about others' relationships when these people are in fact strangers to you and reveal only a tiny bit of their stories here. Even if you have been badly treated yourself and have a wealth of insights to offer which stem from your professional background - as a mental health nurse? - these things don't give you any entitlement to hurt grandmothers' feelings in what seems to be a deeply uncaring and vindictive way. This is unkind, self-indulgent and unethical behaviour and could be seen as being a trifle narcissistic. Where is your compassion, as a nurse and as a human being? I hope that you are not the kind of person who finds satisfaction from antagonising and exploiting emotionally vulnerable people. Please find a more appropriate way of addressing your own "issues".

What you seem to keep missing here is that most of the aggrieved adult children and children-in-law have apparently chosen to go NC without prior willingness to try to have open and honest conversations about the problems as they see them. They have shown little to no interest in communicating better with their mothers and mothers-in-law and in working co-operatively with them on reconciliation for the sake of healthier and happier family functioning. Often there seem to be elements of intentional bullying/abuse of decent and loving grandmothers such as by using passive aggression, control/power games and humiliation as tactics. There are hardly any signs of awareness and acknowledgement that this sad and painful situation is - or could go on to become - bad for the grandchildren and that it is or will be unfair on them - a form of deprivation that is being inflicted without good reason. You are missing that this phenomenon may have something to do with the times and culture in which we live e.g. the erosion of values such as those to do with kindness, respect, trust and honouring dignity, ageism (doesn't tend to attract as much attention as other factors in our equality-obsessed world), the devaluing of traditional family bonds and the influence of social media.

We are imperfect, human grandmothers who are well-intentioned, generous, considerate and helpful by and large but pitifully reduced to "taking what crumbs we are offered" and "swallowing our pride" or who are hoping to be given the chance to do these things again in the future. We deserve to be valued and appreciated a lot more highly.

Cherries agree with you but unfortunately that person has had so many people say similar things to her. It has no effect. She writes deliberately provocative negative responses to many posts not just this one. She has upset so many people especially on this painful subject that grans have decided to leave.

I’m surprised the people who run this forum haven’t noticed her game.

The only way to deal with this is to ignore her, don’t give her the oxygen of replies it only encourages her. I hope this isn’t removed before enough grans see it.

Beautifully worded Cherries.

I share your surprise, MacCavity2, and endorse your comments that some comfort may come from knowing that we are:
(a) by no means alone but members of an already extensive and ever-growing social group
(b) able to help and be helped by each other via sharing a bit about our situation and giving and receiving emotional support here
(c) quite likely at some point to identify one or two helpful ways of coping with loss, grief, uncertainty, being on the receiving end of contempt and all the rest.

Thank you so much, Carolina55

? to everyone going through this, as I am too