Support for all who are living with estrangement

Please come back, grandmothers who are feeling put off and have turned away from this resource. Your thoughts matter!

Joyful nanna
You are right, I don't recognize my AC either, he's incredibly angry , has no empathy, is cruel , mean and just not the person I raised.. it breaks my heart. He's surrounded my poison , especially my DIL, of whom I've tried to bond with over 4 years, I'm emotionally exhausted , the act/playing game is exhausting ! I played it well but still outcome the same, no contact, I love my GC more than anything, so you're right the've always had trump card, I do believe now my DIL has serious issues too, same as you this awful situation comes between my husband and I, I Physically cared for my GC every week for 3 nearly 4 years, so imagine my pain, and every day it's there, and my tears.. . Hugs to you all...

What brilliant posts Cherries. Beautifully worded and compassionate.

Your thoughts about the potential motivations of cruel, cold and indifferent posters is very similar to my own.

I've experienced a period of estrangement. Relatively short-lived but devastating whilst it was happening. I found strength, support and advice from this thread, despite never finding the courage to post here myself. I've now felt compelled to "delurk".

I cannot begin to understand why some posters come onto this site and post hurtful comments to those going through such pain, other than to satisfy their perverse need cause more agony. I truly believe a small number of these posters have some profound problems which cause them to respond in such a way, but that is no excuse to make make others feel worse. Sadly, I suspect some may be trolls and have sociopathic tendancies, feeding off the pain of others. Don't let them. Please, either ignore them or report their posts.

I hope those who might find support from this thread will return. There are some truly wonderful posters here, offering invaluable support, kindness and compassion. I thank each and every one of you who have done this .

Agnurse, your family situation is unlike test of the poster here. Your family have sexual, physical and emotional abuse, plus incest from what you say. Believe me, I would stay a thousand miles a away from a man who did that, no going back, your comments are aimed to hurt, is that because you feel ashamed of what has gone on with your family and you want us to feel the same, but it's completely different. We are not talking about anything like that. Ours is usually about Dil wanting control, a daughter resentful of some thing or nothing. unfortunately you are just annoying.

Aquamarine your pain is my pain, the hurt almost too much to bear. Every evening, every weekend that passes I die a little waiting to hear his voice and see his little face. I ride my bike to work and think of what he's doing, new things he's learning. I just can't forget him or switch of my the pangs in my heart. Whenever I push these feelings away, they snap right back. I just wonder when it will get easier. I wouldn't wish these feelings on my worst enemy (I don't think I have one though). I overeat to relieve these feelings. I sometimes want to run away from everything familiar just to get some relief. I would like to put my spare time to better use and create a scrapbook for my GS, but I can't bring myself to because in my mind, that feels like I've given up fighting to see him. I think of writing my AC a letter but I don't know where to start because it will read like a begging letter. Everyone says I should initiate court proceedings but I am trying to find the strength..somr people say least said, soonest mended but how long is too long to wait?

Sorry for my straight talking in above post. I know how important it is when you feel estranged and powerless. You have to consciously work on your own self worth and esteem, to realise none of are perfect, just usually doing the best we can to children we love so much but something in the relationship has gone really bad. There is always hope that one day things will work out and sometimes we have to walk away and have some distance. None of us are alone in our predicament.

Hdh, Ginny, Cherries, Cosmos and everyone who has strived to explain to others why this thread exists, do the words take a horse to water etc spring to mind?

May I make a suggestion? Its time to preserve our energy and spend it supporting those on here that appreciate it.

Cherries what you say about us just being human beings reminds me of standing in front of my SiL when he was telling me all the things I do wrong and saying, 'But I'm a human being and I can't guess what you expect every time.' At my age and after a long career with many responsibilities for children to be told I don't know what I'm doing, was a tough one. I have younger friends who happily bring their children/grandchildren to my home.

I've never hated anyone in my life before, but at times it's verging on hate for what he's doing to my DD,DGS and me.

Enough of my self-pity. Sending warm wishes to all who are feeling down. A few little treats today wouldn't go amiss. I'm going to make myself go walking with my neighbours shortly, they usually cheer me up. Try to be with people who help you feel positive.

Joyfulnanna, your post has made me cry. You describe the on going emotions so accurately. I only have to think about my GC and I well up. I too overeat and hide away from the real world. After two years of nc with my GC and begging letters resulting in no response, I now am finally trying to stop this banging my head brick wall scenario. I'm trying to go nc now and focus on time with my DH. Like you Joyfulnanna I torture myself with imagining what they're up to and reliving happy days with them. I've decided to step back for a few months and then try mediation, although I'm very doubtful that my DD will agree to it. But it's another thing to try. Might be worth a try for you Joyfulnanna?

Fabulous posts cherries; thank you.

It's wonderful to see so many supportive, caring and in some ways defiant posts on this thread. It's simply wonderful that this thread, in its various forms is still running. I've been posting here for more than 6 years now and at times, insensitive bordering on cruel posts are sadly nothing new. That said, it doesn't make them any easier to read.

agnurse it's been requested on numerous occasions that you either refrain from posting here or re evaluate the content of the messages that you make.

This is not the first time that you've given some insight into your own situation; your H's non contact with his father and your sister's non contact with your parents and other members of your family.

No one has ever told you that they believe your H to be in the wrong or that your parents must have done something for your sister to cut them out, yet you persist in tarnishing the bereaved P's and GP's on this thread, with the 'you must have done something' brush.

Your experiences of your FIL have blinded your ability to accept that yes, some AC do go no contact for no justifiable reason. You can tell those that have done so by reading the posts on this thread. They are the ones who refuse to communicate, who lie, who play mind games with their list of controlling and unacceptable rules. Who have their P's grovelling for the few crumbs they throw from time to time. Then, when they're tired of that game, withdraw all contact.

I understand the pain that is being shared here and my heart breaks for you all. For those of you who knew your GC, had that wonderful relationship that all decent, loving and caring GP's have a right, yes agnurse the right to have with their GC. More importantly, these GC have the right to know their GP's and all members of their extended family, as is enshrined in the Chidren Act.

Mr. S. and I are fortunate that we never had that. We saw little of our eldest GC and never saw him again from the age of 8 months. We've never seen our youngest. We have had the fantasy, the dream of what being GP's would have been like taken from us, so many of you have had the reality.

And that is the reality. We've lost a child and GC. There's nothing we can do about that, so what can we do?

We can be there for those that love us and want us in their lives. We can make memory boxes, write journals and send birthday and Christmas to our GC. We can hope that one day, when they're old enough to do so, that we may see our GC because they'll seek us out.

We can continue to do what we do here; be here for one another. Comfort one another when the pain of estrangement is overwhelming and gently guide one another toward the light at the end of this tunnel.

The light exists, and within it there is peace and the gradual easing of pain.

Just sending love all of you who are suffering, it is very hard. The support here by kind, caring, thoughtful people is invaluable to us all. I think someone said somewhere on the thread, it means such a lot to hold hands along the way.

Thank you

Wow. Just wow. No one has a right to a relationship with someone else's minor children. Full stop.

What you are saying, in effect, is that you have more rights over the children than the parents do.

I have a serious question. Do you consider your adult children your peers?

Just to clarify: grandparent rights were originally intended to ensure that children had continuity in family relationships where there was instability in their own situations (e.g. a parent had died, parents had separated, parents had personal issues).

Let me give you an example from Canadian law that I think illustrates this point. I recognize that the laws are different in the UK. I'm making a point.

In order to receive grandparent rights, the grandparents must prove that they had a relationship with the child, that the relationship has been severed, and that it is in the best interests of the child that the relationship be continued.

That's a fairly tall order. Notice that it's all about the child. It is not about what the grandparents want.

As my son would say ‘Peace and love’! To all, yes to all!!

Agnurse
No one every said it was not about the child but that child as a minor cannot fight for contact with their loving grandparent, someone has to be the adult. You are a thorn in the side of people that post here. Will you just jog on and troll somewhere else!!! It's self centred, small minded people like you that we don't need on here.

Well as you recognize that Canadian law differs to that of the UK agnurse there's little point in referring to it is there.

As I stated, it is part of the Children Act in the UK that children have the right to know their extended family.

Spiteful, cruel and manipulative parents don't have the moral right to deprive their children of loving GP's.

I seem to remember some time ago, when posting about your own family's situation that you said something along the lines of not involving yourself in the rift between your sister and your parents as it wasn't anything to do with you.

Perhaps you could extend this thread the same courtesy.

Just like to say I’m enjoying the sun shine today. Not letting know all’s get in mys way!!
Missing my gc of course but I have spasmodic contact ( lots of horrendous rules) so I’ve bought a note book which I hope to get gc to draw scribble whatever, in it when I next see them!
A keepsake for me and something I can put in the box for them later on.
Anyway this is how I’m getting through at the moment.
Counting my blessings as I’m coming out of a long emotional hibernation (self inflicted) of sorts!

Good luck ☘️ Everyone and I hope you can find something to enjoy today?

Good for you namsnanny. Your post has been the one thing today that I have enjoyed.

Enjoy the sunshine Namsnanny. It does lift the spirits a little. I'm going to do the same. What a good idea to get the GC to 'write' scribble whatever in your book. Would it be in order to take a photo of them doing it?

Just when I thought maybe it was safe to dip a toe in the water, out comes the piranha again!

There is something very worrying about a person who is so intransigent...to the point of idiocy. I have been a counsellor, albeit mostly retired now, for thirty years and have come across - and hopefully helped - many people, all presenting with differing character traits. Very occasionally I have encountered someone who I realised immediately would not respond favourably to the counselling process. Why? Because you cannot help someone who is so entrenched in the belief that they know best. The late great Carl Rogers often said in his many works that with the right therapy and guidance anyone can change. Well sorry Carl, 99% of the time yes, but very rarely you will encounter someone who is so dogmatic and aggrandising - often classicly narcissistic - that the only thing to do is show them the door. This is the situation we have here. Normally this wouldn't trouble me, in fact I've walked away, and deprived myself of the love and support freely offered by everyone here. Now though, having read all the latest heartbreaking stories I feel very strongly that so many have done what I did....and run away because of one belligerent, unwanted poster. There is only criticism and a domineering spiel from this poster, never an acceptance that what we are saying and feeling could ever be right. I notice that posts like mine where I offer complete proof, backed by a court of law, that lives are torn apart because of vicious people with their own agenda, are never challenged. Grandparents may not have legal rights, but that's not we want anyway. We want the right to love, and cherish those little people who are flesh of our flesh, the way we did their parents. I'm lucky I suppose because my son stood up to the possessive mother of his child, but you know what, now that the dust has settled I don't feel lucky. My son has lost the privilege of waking up each morning with his precious little one. He has lost the home he bought and has lived through five years of hell. Once I saw how things were almost five years ago I stepped back and accepted the loss of my granddaughter in the hope that his marriage would not be affected. My heartbreak was my own. It was all for nothing. The child's mother destroyed everything with her need to control.

One thing I always say to anyone who is at the mercy of a bully....the only way to win is to refuse to play the game.

Much love.x.?

I've been reading Grandnet for a while but I have felt the need to join officially today to stand up for agnurse! I feel very uncomfortable about the way she is being singled out and ganged up on on this thread.
I understand that she is saying things that many people do not agree with, but does that give people license to name call and tell her she is no longer welcome? Surely, on a public forum, anyone is free to post anything they wish (within reason, of course)?
I have no problem with disagreement and debate, but this kind of behaviour towards agnurse seems a little much.

Much love to you as well Irishrose, and your son and gc too!


Having been bullied both physically and emotionally on and off, (I take responsibility for bringing these controlling people into my life, albeit subconsciously!) I'm afraid I've had marginal success dealing with them.

Honestly, only those at school that I eventually walloped (out of fear and frustration) did I actually get the better of.

Bullies that use emotional intimidation (the tool of so called adults) have been harder to get to grips with.

As you suggested walking away is the only thing left.

Smileless…..Glad to be of service!!
Go dig out some photos of the happy time you spent with your son in Oz (or was it NZ?) and share the memory of it with that lovely husband of yours!
Or is he out buying something nice for your new(ish) home ?


Ginny.....I'd love to take a photo, but although nothing is said when I've tried in the past, I get black looks and penalised by a longer time frame between visits.
That's one of the 'rules'. I have to work out whats not acceptable behaviour (from me and H) and what is. With visits being withheld as a punishment!

Lol!! I'll be getting a star chart next .

I've asked for copies of photos taken by the parents but none are forthcoming.
Even of their wedding :-(
I wasn't invited to have a photo taken with the happy couple. Nor was my husband.

We repeatedly asked for official wedding photos, but were ignored. Only to be at a (rare) family gathering where said photos were handed out to lots of inlaws, right under our noses, which needless to say were put out of joint!!

Feeling vulnerable now, having spoken of that day, which was full of fear, confusion and intimidation.

I try not to hold on to the resentment I tend to feel, so as not to jeopardize any future meetings with AC and gc.

No doubt someone will want to put the boot in, but hay ho! Onwards and upwards

Westcountrygal…..It does you credit to feel like standing up for someone who appears to be in the minority, well done and I'd normally feel just the same.

Can I say just how long have you been reading this thread for?

And did you know that it has been derailed in the past by those that don't feel the same way about supporting people with positivity and kindness?

Perhaps that's why people are asking to be left alone to do so?

Is it really too much to ask to say 'If you don't agree with me, can you at least agree that we differ?'

And if we differ how often can we go over the same ground always differing in our opinions?

Therefor isn't it better to leave one group to carry on as they are?

No one is stopping an alternative thread which states opposing views from being started.
Everyone can have their pov aired in this way without causing offence or hurt to either party.

Sorry if you don't agree [flowers}

WestcoutryGal I can’t believe you have read this thread from the beginning, if you had you would know the pain caused by the person you are defending.

We are mostly in a very vulnerable emotional state and to be constantly told it’s our fault is unbelievably demoralising.

My greatest fear for us grans is that the person you are defending will end up with BLOOD on her HANDS.

I have now reported this person to the GN team as they also might be responsible for someone committing suicide.

Perhaps I’ll be the one to be dumped from here!

Everyone just ignore the nonsense, please. This has been going on for ages and actually died down when it was ignored. Flared up again as there has been a reaction.

Be kind to one another. SUPPORT is all we come on here for.

to all those suffering.