Support for all who are living with estrangement

Perhaps it's time to be more forthright, take a stand on behalf of moral values and call this behaviour what it quite often appears to be - elder and child abuse.

Cherries
That was a very insightful article with many points made so clearly. It's now plain to me that someone has truly recognised the real impacts of this cruel situation. The stigma attached to this is something that I suffer as I have to lie to people that I still see my gc because of the self blame and guilt I feel at my part in this. I am angry that I've been put on the situation because of course people will judge me even if they are well meaning. Being anonymous on here is the only way I can truly open up about it.

Cherries

I would be hesitant to call this abuse simply because there are many possible reasons for estrangement. For example, in my case, I feel that we have good reason not to have a relationship with FIL.

It would be very hard to determine exactly which cases are deliberately abusive and which cases occurred because the parents felt it was not in their children's best interest to have a continuing relationship with the GPs. Moreover, what about cases where the GPs simply don't wish to get involved with their GC? Is it ethical to force them to do so?

You really are unbelievable agnurse. Did you even bother to read the article that cherries kindly provided a link too?

The article states that unless there is "true psychological pathology or physical abuse of the children by the grand parents" to deny these children their GP's is child abuse.

You feel that you have good reason to not have a relationship with your FIL and for him to be kept away from his GC and we, the estranged P's and GP's who come here to give and receive support, know that there is no good reason for our estrangements from our GC.

I think you must be being deliberately obtuse; what does GP's who don't want contact with their GC have to do with this thread? You ask if it would be ethical to force contact, as if anyone would, but seem either unwilling or unable to grasp the total absence of ethics when AC take their P's GC away from them out of sheer spite and cruelty.

Best not to engage with her Smileless. It only seems to feed some kind of unhealthy need she has and is probably best ignored.

Such a shame that so many people have been driven away because of this.

I echo Chewbacca and Smokeless points emphatically.. One thing I've noticed about you Agnurse is that it seems you can't let go of your own personal hurt about your Fil. You go on and on, on a thread that's meant to be for gp seeking support. It seems to me there is some deep seated hope for reconciliation with your Fil or misdirected pain that you can't resolve, otherwise why would you keep posting on here. Really it's time for you to seek support for your situation elsewhere or do you just enjoy ostracising everyone. Some people love to perpetuate their hate, it's in their life story. This is the basis of TRANSACTIONAL ANALYSIS.. GOOGLE IT. Read about it and learn about yourself. Try and figure out why you enjoy upsetting vulnerable people. I can see through you.

Yes I know Chewbacca but she makes me so because her BS drives people away from this thread.

Joyfulnanna.

It’s so sad that someone insists on posting negativity on this thread when all we want is some support from fellow sufferers/empathisers or to share our painful experiences so that others know they are not alone.

Although my friends and family were very good with me, I knew no one who had been through it themselves and I believe that talking/posting on here can only be beneficial and I wish it had been around 14 years ago.

Keep up the good work ladies x

I feel the same way Smileless but I think that Joyfulnanna has hit the nail on the head by identifying that their is obviously a great deal of unresolved angst for agnurse regarding her FIL. She mentions it at every opportunity, even when not appropriate, and it's clearly still causing her a great deal of difficulty to come to terms with. Somehow that pain is assuaged by referring it onto the posters of this thread. Its all very sad really and is to be pitied.

agnurse

Ah, but the thing is that there IS some hesitancy in my post in which I link going NC to the idea of abuse. Note the phrase "quite often appears to be". I'm sure you'll agree that this is not a court of law so we are not required to be absolutely certain. It is enough that we are interested in exploring possible ways of understanding things and in identifying possible patterns. Our motives are to recognise and face what may be painful aspects of reality that we need to absorb and deal with and to empathise with, validate and support each other - to hold hands with each other metaphorically - as a means to feel less isolated and vulnerable to self-doubt and other problems.

"Moreover, what about cases where GPs simply don't wish to get involved with their GC? Is it ethical to force them to do so?"
No, it is not ethical but the 1st question is absurdly irrelevant to this thread. I think that you know that this is probably a curve-ball question to throw us off-balance or to demonstrate what you may see as your oneup(wo)manship.

As others have been doing for some time, I also want to ask you please, agnurse, why you persist with conflating your circumstances with ours. It's just not rational, is it? There are no obvious parallels that anyone can see.

Antagonising posters on this thread seems to have become your specialty, unfortunately. Is this a game - a way of obtaining "narcissistic supply"?

If this is a form of "narcissistic abuse", involving gaslighting and whatnot, it would very likely be advisable for the sake of our wellbeing and connectedness with each other to cut off that supply by going NC with you.

Yes, I agree with Chewbacca, but whilst we can offer agnurse pity, she has to respect our feelings and we don't need chastisement. We blame ourselves as it is. She has an unfortunate tone and sadly it has driven some posters away.

We must return to the main purpose of the thread, as I think we are entering a very difficult weekend with Mother's Day on Sunday. It is a day charged with emotion for the alienated. For those who have other family and GC, the absent family will be missed of course but treasure the love of those you will see/hear from.

On Sunday, let's come on GN and send good wishes and flowers to each other.

Cherries a very well expressed post and some good points. Thankyou

Beautifully put Carolina, cherries and Ginny. It's going to be so hard on mothers day.. I want to be positive and I have a wonderful son who always marks the day with me and his love means so much. We are beautiful individuals with so much love to give and we must let our nearest and dearests know that. I wish you all some comfort and strength over the weekend. Xx

Another day without GC. I went on a walk with a dear friend but thought wouldn't GC love it here, she loved nature ??? missing GC so much. Mother's Day always a hard day, my AC never bothered with me on this day, I always plan a day out with a friend. No phone call, nothing. I always saw my own mum , but my AC said it was his day with his wife, my DIL. Who I now know as rude, cruel and mean. Gone of my days of being supportive and generous ! I take support from this site, so people please just say it as it is, dont let others bother/annoy you, don't give them the space, I just ignore !

Hello all, I have been reading some heart-rending posts here, and some tremendously supportive valuable support amongst the community. I may be facing some problems of my own before long and it helps to know I am not alone in feeling helpless to resolve matters.
The major protagonist really is not worth upsetting yourselves over. Best ignored, as reaction is what fuels the fire.
Continue to support each other, as has been said we are all human none of us perfect, we do the best we can in sometimes very difficult situations and I hope no one leaves a marvellous support network because of some ill judged commitments.
Best of luck to us all resolving painful problems.

My nc with my D and ES is now into the fourth year and two years since I last saw my GC. Emails etc back and forth have proved fruitless and I just wondered whether anyone on here has experienced, or knows of anyone who has experienced, a positive outcome in whatever way? Whilst it is very comforting to know that we are not alone in this, it would also be good to know of any situations being successfully resolved.

What hurts me most is that I never deprived my children of their grandparents.. Even when things were tricky, I saw the love they had for my children and put aside my annoyances if ever they came up.. I taught them to respect their grandparents, care for them when they were unwell and share leisure time together. This is why I can't understand why my daughter is not the same with her child, my GC, my only GC, who I loved the moment I saw him. My love grew as he grew, we spent so much time together. Although I do think I made the mistake of being so pleased to see him, she may have thought I was ignoring her. I regret this so much because I think that was when the rot set in. My GC would rush into my arms and that might have hurt her feelings. He would want me to himself and sometimes I found it hard to make time for my AC. Relationships do change when GC come along but as a first time GP, I had no idea how strong my love would be..maybe because it took me back to first time motherhood and my intense feelings then. Its mother nature alright! Now all I can do is wait and hope that one day I'll see my AC and GC and be given the chance to start again. I am prepared to admit my faults but if only to love too much

Joyfulnanna I don't understand why you have recriminations because you were so pleased to see your GC. If our AC were mature enough to become parents then they should have rejoiced in the love that there child's GP's had and demonstrated for their child, not resented it or been jealous of it.

I really do believe that at the heart of so many of these estrangements is the immaturity and the sense of entitlement of our AC.

I see on the clock that it's summer time already and Mother's Day. I think for those mothers on their own today a little pampering is in order and if you can, try to spend time doing something to help you feel positive.

My sister has invited me to her house where she's doing a buffet for ACs and AGC - that's 12 and she enjoys every minute of it! I used to get down seeing other clearly happy families, but now I just accept it.

and good wishes winging their way to all. xx

I'm going to put flowers on my mums grave..then go for a swim. Happy mothers day girls. Do something you enjoy x

Happy Mothers Day to all, whatever you are doing today

Not an easy day for those estranged and on their own. ?

Happy Mothers Day to all......we must applaud ourselves for the job we did , so enjoy today whatever you are doing

HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY to all you sweet loving mothers & grandmothers.

Have been on here for a while, been reading your posts
Aquamarine Sat 16-Mar-19 09:26:31
up till page 23, so many posts since I was last on!

Aquamarine your story is soo heart breaking! Take a walk by the seaside, listen to the birds, watch the trees sway in the wind, feel the sunshine on your face and be glad to be alive, whilst you are, there is still hope you will see your beloved GD, maybe even in this year, you never know what's round the corner, something may shift, so hold onto that

My heart, broken into a thousand pieces, has now turned to stone, I cannot buy cards, or put money in the accounts I opened for them, I have to keep the brick wall I've built up over this 6.5yrs solid, without any cracks.

I too didn't want to go on, but as I've said above, what kept me going is if I ended my life, then I would for sure never see my precious GD & GS again, so I go on and on, the grieving never stops, but the sharp edges have dropped away. I too wonder what my precious GD was told about where I had gone, she loved me as much as I loved her, our bond was a very special one. I think she would have been told I had died, along with her aunty, my other DD that was cut out too. So my little precious GD grieved for me as I grieved for her.

There is a very special place reserved in hell for those who get enjoyment in making, who should be their loved ones, grieving for one another, the reason for all this; jealousy!!

I leave for work shortly, will be back on again to read from page 24..... Have a lovely day all xxx