Trusting future SiL

As another perspective, I know a couple where she hides her drinking and spending, she has lost her car & they have moved miles from her close family.....

..... the truth is that she keeps running up tens of thousands in debts. They lost their second car and house for that reason (now rent in a cheaper area). She has previously seen people for her spending addictions and debts and agreed spending/payment plans with professionals but then secretly spends or sneaks out for £200 of cocktails.

I love her as a friends but I dont know why her DH stays with her. I think its because his family isnt very warm and she's all the family he's got! I think her lying and running up debt puts him in an abusive relationship. He keeps believing her each time they agree a plan and works his butt off to pay off her debts whilst she runs up new secret ones..

I only know this because I know her very well.

Red flags are important. They are a sign of a problem. And my friend does have serious problems and needs help (and needs her family to stop enabling her spending/drinking when they are losing their home and car and up to their eyes in debt but thats another rant..)

Dont ignore red flags. But keep an open mind as to what is causing the flags so you can offer the right support

I totally agree lumerei the reason I haven’t commented
If the poster comes back with a bit more info it might help

there was a history of abuse with her sister in her teens what does that mean ? Was the sister abused by a boyfriend and the poster is extra vigilant now because of that?

Frankly I am gobsmacked how anyone can talk about abuse having so little evidence (2points) and they are absolutely nothing to go by.
DD has given up her car but the OP can’t go into the details of why. Nowhere does it say he made her give up the car. She may not want to drive anymore (maybe following an accident for example)
He abhors alcohol - so do I. If she drinks in secret she could be an alcoholic. For all we know the OP and family could be alcoholics and not see anything wrong with it.
It is impossible to give any advise to the OP other than support DD without interfering.

Johno if the OP were to speak out to "put him in his place" she could find herself being branded a trouble maker and maybe cut out of her daughter's life.

Your are so right to be concerned. This is coersive control, classed as domestic abuse due to the mental control and is as bad if not worse than physical abuse, you can't see the bruises! Your daughter will say she is alright out of fear of any consequences. She probably feels trapped and rock bottom. All you can do is be there for her, the more you say the more she may shrink into the mental prison he has created. Sorry to sound hard but I have been there!

Firstly - I never understand why people apologise for a "rant". I remember when people just spoke as they felt and the word RANT was never mentioned. However, as for your concerns.... you will realise that this is a control matter and is not acceptable. Destined for the rocks, eventually. The common experience will show that "interfering" is not accepted and often shunned. You just keep in contact and keep your eye on the ball. Personally if I saw serious control I would put him in his place and let him know my level of tolerance. But there is nothing you can directly do which will magically change things. If I tried to stop my wife from drinking she would tell me to get stuffed, in no uncertain terms (i dont joke about the situation) but some people are not so strong of character and it is this weakness which allows for the controlling partner to be in control. I would pack my bags asap if for no other reason but to assert my own being as a person, an individual.

A clear case of coercive control.

However, what does this mean?

“There is a history of abuse with her sister in her early teens & im scared there may be an untapped backlash,”

Who was abused? The OP’s DD? The sister? Did the DH abuse one of the girls or did one of them abuse the other? Where is the backlash coming from?

Until we know for sure, it is difficult to see how this fits in with the picture.

However, the DD should run for the hills. The OP should alert every interested official body she can to protect her DD.

It is very worrying as there a lot of potential red flags - where her life is becoming more limited and less free.

- reading somewhat between the lines it sounds as though giving up the car was not a totally voluntary act but something her bf persuaded or demanded which has left her isolated, dependent and reduced her freedom to go where she wants.

- The drinking also seems controlling. He doesn't like drinking so she's not allowed to drink. If she chooses to have a drink then he becomes angry and a row ensues. She is tiptoeing around him on eggshells and having a drink in secret. This is incredibly toxic and sounds like he is taking away her freedom to make her own choices.

It sounds more like a parent-child relationship than one based on a partnership of equals.

She needs to decide whether this relationship is what she really wants
- if in the UK she could contact Women's Aid and even look into doing the freedom programme for women in abusive relationships www.womensaid.org.uk/
- perhaps you could give her some escape money so that she can always get a taxi to you - day or night

I have never learned to drive or owned a car. I don't ever feel restricted, though, in any way. I can get a cab, bus, train (or combination of) to anywhere I want to go (or a flight up to Glasgow to visit my friend). Locally, I'll walk or cycle too. I've saved a lot of money, despite regular cab use, freed from the considerable expense of car ownership too!

My MIL had given up driving before I met her but following her husbands health deteriorating and him having a heart bypass we suggested she took a refresher course and start driving again as it would enable her to get about more easily if he was in hospital or just too unwell to drive her places. We paid for the refresher course, and she did drive a little for a while, but he wasn't keen. If they visited us (about 70 miles each way) he would insist on leaving early to avoid driving at dusk. She often suggested that she drive since she wasn't bothered by the light conditions but he would say "It's too far for you to drive." Eventually she stopped driving again and now as a widow is dependent on friends to give her lifts or public transport - not ideal when you live in a small village. I think it is very common for men to prefer to drive and limit their wife's use of a shared car.

My own husband always drove most of the time when we were out as a family and only asked me to drive on very long journeys if he was tired, or on a night out when he wanted to drink. Although I always had my own car and drove every day locally, I became nervous of driving longer distances, especially at night, as I was no longer used to it. After we split up, and subsequently divorced, I got my confidence back as I had to drive long distances to see my family (200 miles away) and children who both went to University at a distance. Some of my colleagues comment on the distances I drive and I wonder if they are restricted by their husbands. I now visit my daughter by train since she moved to Scotland as the journey is too far for me to do without an overnight stop, but otherwise I still drive everywhere. Unless money is tight I'd never suggest giving up your car as it may result in a loss of independence. I don't think either my FIL or ex husband exerted coercive control but were just typical men who prefer to drive than to be driven unless it suits them on a particular occasion.

As far a s the OP's situation is concerned, there may well be cause for concern. Listen to your gut feelings and make sure your DD knows you are there for her. However, men restricting their wives from driving is much more common than you may think!

Giving up the expense of running two cars can be a good idea but only if both people can use the vehicle equally. Why does he have to do all the driving? Have you asked your daughter if she can use the car independently? Her answer will tell you all you need to know about whether she is being controlled or not. However, I feel that anyone who needs to drink in secret is the one who actually has the problem.

This is very difficult for you. Your daughter is grown up and has to make her own choices. However, I see no harm in asking her if all is well and assuring her that you will always be there if ever she needs you whatever the circumstances.

My son has married someone similar. She was very nice until they got engaged. They. Now have a daughter which I have only been allowed to see once for an hour. I kept asking to see the baby and they were always too busy or her family were staying with them. I asked my son why and he won’t speak to me and said I have ruined his life. I am devastated as he is my only child.

This would ring alarm bells for me but sadly it's up to your daughter to stand up to him and if she won't do it now there is even less chance after the marriage but the drinking in secret is a rocky road to travel how does he react when you are all drinking socially including your daughter

They dont sound compatable. I would be equally furious and worried if my partner was secret drinking. I wouldnt date a drinker in the first place but sometimes people conceal their drinking habits until later in the relationship

I don’t post very often but this one has really touched a nerve. My daughter married a man like this. It was all very subtle but very gradually he took control. He made her life so difficult with regard to her job. She had a very good job which she enjoyed; trouble was she worked mainly with men. Next was he sold her car, her pride and joy which she bought brand new. The money was used to pay off one of his debts. Gradually the control hit out of hand and my poor daughter was exhausted by it all. They had two young boys which he hardly acknowledged. My daughter became very ill with an autoimmune disease - vasculitis. I am convinced because she was so run down. He tried his best to isolate her from family and friends. If he could have kept her locked in the house, I think he would have.

Six years on and, thank goodness, they are now divorced. The nightmare though continues as he is using the boys now to get back at her.

To everyone who thinks that this fiancé isn’t a control freak, I am sorry but all the signs are there. They are very clever. They are insidious and I would advise this lady to talk seriously to her daughter. Google ‘Coercive Control’. Abuse doesn’t have to be physical and mental abuse is also extremely damaging.

I urge you ladies not to give up your car when you retire. My husband said we only needed one but I always felt he did not want me to drive “his” car. We could have afforded to keep it. Now many years later he encouraged me to have refresher lesson as had a health scare. I did. The instructor said I was perfectly OK. Took him out and he made it very unpleasant. So not driving again.

Excuse typos ?

Niucla97 I coukd have written your post. I also have a controlling dil who have slowly and methodically kept him away from his friends who have now given up on him and his family have now decided to stay away from them as she is toxic. They no longer get invited to family gatherings and even his siblings who he was very close to have distanced themselves unless he's on his own. She telks so many lies and although he had known us for all his life chooses to believe her. We now speak to him when he's not near her or wait gor him to visit (hes allowed if she is busy with her fsmily/friends). We ard just eaiting for it all to come tumbling down amd will be there for him if he wants us. It is do hard when you have wrkcomex someone into your family, treayed them like a dd for 6 years then to be cut off once the wedding ing ring was on, literally on thd day we were completely snubbed by bride

Massive red flags!!!
Run for the hills!!

Wondering why she is still with him

Because she believes they love each other and that she is just making a few compromises to keep the relationship happy.

I'm shocked, too, by the lack of understanding of OP. People who've never experienced control can find it impossible to understand. They colud start by watching Gaslight to see what is done to the Ingrid Bergman character. And in OP's daughter's case the posters clearly haven't heard of the problems suffered and perpetrated by adult children of alcoholics (ACAs). ACAs can become alcoholics themselves or they can go the other way and be obsessed about criticising people who drink alcohol. ACAs can take over finances, possibly because they did that with their alcoholic parent's wages so that the money could be spent on food instead of alcohol. Controlling money becomes a habit. And it ends up suiting them that their other half drinks.

As she hasn't got a car, give her some emergency money in an envelope. Say it's there in case she ever has to get somewhere fast.

I've worked with many people over the years who have been subjected to abuse and at first glance, I'm seeing a lot of red flags here, however, as with many things, at times you need a fuller picture which understandably we're not seeing/getting.

You need to keep the door open and ensure she knows that she can come to you for help.

it is a worry for you, isn't it? But she has to make her own choices, its her life to live, but hard to watch as a mother when/if it all starts to go wrong.

Nothing to add to other posters replies, only make sure she knows she has somewhere safe to go to should she need to if things get really bad. Have you a spare room?

I daresay if she and her partner muddle along reasonably well she will not need it, but if the relationship really starts to fall apart then she probably will.
Whether she realises its all going pear shaped is another matter though. So hard being a mum sometimes, you can see them making a mess of things, or making what you think are bad choices, and there is very little you can do apart from picking up the pieces later if need be.