Mumsnet discussions about estrangement

Norah

At spending more quality time with the children, we know now how quickly they grow up. Not suggesting that grandparents want a second chance at parenting

Sara65 A second chance at what?

GoodMama

I take my hat off to you, you really are a very kind and tolerant girl, and I think your dad is lucky you’ve cut him so much slack.

I think Joyfulnana is right about us being aware of time racing by, those special precious years are gone so quickly, I guess some grandparents want a second chance.

I think the reason gp spoil their gc is because they know how short childhood is, they know how quickly time goes and how soon kids would rather see their own friends, than be with parents or gp. As a first time parent, you haven't been through this yet, it's all new and most parents are so busy keeping all the plates spinning, and the headiness of watching children go through phases, whereas the gp can reflect on these times, look back and realise how precious childhood is, perhaps they feel a sense of sadness (probably not the right word) and are just trying to overcompensate.. I don't know, these are just my thoughts.

Sara65, I've never been on Mumsnet. I'm lucky to have a good relationship with my MIL. She lives a ways away, but we offer her to visit often and send her pictures whenever we think of it.

I do have challenges with my own parents, however. There is a definitely a differing of opinion on expectations. My father believes that grandparents do not have to follow any of the parents guidelines and they their "grandparent experience" trumps my parenting.

He believes vaccines are none-sense ("he had the measles and survived, after all"), that he should be allowed to feed my daughter food she is allergic to ("Doctors today are too cautious") and he manages to criticize every parenting decision my DH and I make, even chastising me for feeding my very small and underweight newborn a few times over night instead of leaving her in her crib for 8 hours like he did (FYI - my mom did not do this, he was just asleep and didn't remember ).

Still, we are walking the line of a respectful relationship because I do want a relationship between him and my children. But I have watch him closely to make sure my kids stay safe, which creates strain and I do not enjoy the visits.

I have to very quietly and covertly avoid letting my father sit by my daughter at meal times to keep her safe. I'm sure some of the MILs here would rake me over the coals for denying him this. But he doesn't listen and I have to keep her safe.

The echo-chamber and defense of MILs or DILs on these sites no matter what, in spite of logic or rational thought drives me crazy.

It seems a great number of posters will defend a MIL, no matter how out of line because she is a MIL. I assume, from things I've seen here that it is the same on Mumsnet.

Goodmamma

You make some very good points, I have only once briefly looked at mumsnet years ago, and realised pretty quickly that it wasn’t for me.

I see both sides, I think some grandparents, sadly mostly grandmothers, do think they are entitled to a relationship with their grandchildren, I also think some mums are cutting off their noses to spite their faces, grandparents can be a huge help and support.

I think some posters here have been insightful and pointed out that generational expectations could be at play.

You read a lot on MN about “grandparents wanting to be 3rd parents”. Stealing precious moments from parents, feeling entitled to their children’s children, generally not knowing or respecting their role.

At the same time you read on GN about grandparents who just want to love and spoil their grandchildren. They want to give them the time and attention they couldn’t give their kids when they were young. They want help the parents not repeat their own mistakes.

You also hear a lot of these grandparents talk about how they let their parents have these experiences and while they didn’t like it, it was expected of them. So they grit their teeth and put up with it. Now they expect their children to do the same.

But times have changed (as mentioned in this thread) and parents today don’t feel obligated to give up their experiences and moments with their kids so their parents can have them or be included on them.

So there is conflict. And the poor grandparents are let upset because they missed out on both ends.

But the cycle has to stop somewhere. Perhaps that is what we are seeing. A societal shift in “deferential treatment of elders” and realizing life is short so stand up for your happiness and your family. Your parents are responsible for their own happiness.

I’m not sure. But I keep seeing these themes and ideas mentioned. It seems like an epic clash.

Hopefully the next generation will be raised by parents who were satisfied with their parenting and are happy to sit back and enjoy their retirement years with out feeling the need to make up for missing out.

If this is the case- It’s truly sad for the current grandparent generation. But it has to stop sometime.

I suppose it's the lesser of two evils.

Yes, Smileless thats why I wonder if ghosting might be better?

Oh he through wobbly's Norah, they both did; that was just the beginning.

He wasn't content to just walk away. The lies started, lies that almost destroyed us and put a terrible strain on our relationship with his brother.

But we got through it and the relationship we have with our DS is stronger now than it ever was, as is the relationship we have as husband and wife.

Shattered is shattered, but shattered doesn't have to last a life time.

I wonder just how true the statements made by the OPs on MN that incite the views that they should go NC.
I would never have answered my parents or grandparents back cheekily. I dont treat anyone like that. I was brought up to have good manners and even when I dont agree with others I dont get into an argument or try to gather up a gang to take on my view. (I have wondered if I should have had a more forthright disposition, so many people have taken advantage)
It is now coming to light that many children are awful to their parents. I dont have the website but you could Google "The Silent Suffering of Parent Abuse. When Children Abuse Parents"
I was ashamed and did not speak out previously but it happened to me. I have scars, real physical scars. I have had people advise me to give one of my "D"?Cs a real slap. I was a parent when we were not to smack the little angels so I never did. I have them recorded shouting and swearing at me. They also sent emails and PM with abusive content. I worked up to 3 jobs to keep them while the exh paid nothing. They also allow their DC my DGC to be shouted and sworn at, one SIL when I said dont smack the DGC then smacked my bottom!
They drink sometimes to great excesses. They have other questionable habits. There are legal documents showing what is really going on.
Lately I have been accused of being drunk (I dont drink at all) and on drugs (I have never taken drugs in my life. I have also been accused of running both DCs lives. If I was running their lives I would be making a better job of them. I could not do as bad as they are.
If my DCs were to write on MN they would likely make me out to be a drink and drug muddled waste of space. I am not. I have been in responsible jobs, I am currently running an inherited business which was left to me by people as sober and non drug taking as myself.

Smileless2012 gutting Im sure, better over to throwing a wobbly.

Shattered is shattered.

Im not sure there is a difference to disappearing and fading away? And should either be less upsetting? To me, "ghosting" no matter how defined, could be the less painful.

It was awful Starlady. I wish he had just disappeared.

Bradfordlass and Sara65, such poignant posts! Hugs to you both!

As for "ghosting," Ive heard of it in both contexts - suddenly disappearing and "fading away." The second is probably kinder, but either one may leave the ousted party wondering why. That's why I think at least a brief explanation is warranted, unless the reasons are really obvious.

Smileless, I can't get over the way ES cut you off! And at Christmas, too! While he didn't just "disappear," IMO, this was just a harsh. How could he have thought this was ok?

Bradfordlass

Maybe you have been able to accept that your parents loved you despite their lack of physical affection.

I think my dad loved me in his rather reserved way, and I loved him, on the other hand I’m pretty certain my mother never really loved me, and I don’t love her. I don’t think you can assume that all parents love their children, just have difficulty in showing it, some parents, possibly because of unresolved issues of their own, do not love their children.

Our ES put a note through our door together with our GC's first Christmas present on Christmas Eve. The note said we were no longer a part of his and our GC's life and were to stay away.

It took us some time, 4 years actually to realise that we didn't want to be with those who don't want us; so we moved.

BradfordLass72
Norah has someone actually said to you, "you're not wanted"? That's awful and so very painful.

No it was my premise Id not want to be with those who didnt want me.

Jennist...it’s the thought of ‘what if ....... I’d tried a little harder,or opened my heart a little more’ that keeps me tied to keep on trying, hoping for the best. It creates a circle of regret though.

I have seen on FBook philosophical posts regarding 'toxic ' people, and how one should get rid of them from your life.
On reflection, due to old age, I have stuck with difficult people, especially older relations and friends.
How many times have we heard the complaint, ' They are not listening to me. They can do ' such a thing and then pretend not to understand ', only to find out later a person is ill or in the early stages of dementia.
I am not always saying this is the case, but one should always think carefully before breaking contact.
I experienced a bad time with my Mum, who was hiding a cancer diagnosis from me. I decided to calm down, stick with her, and received her thanks and love at the end.
It may not work in all cases, but I can never have to say to myself, 'what if ....'

That's a large part of the process, having what one intends to be a meaningful discussion and it resulting in WWIII- When it doesn't need to- Keeping calm isn't easy! And yet, if you do remain calm, the war is reduced by half-

I spoke with my sister about two issues on separate occasions this past year, both meaningful discussions- No freaking out, no meltdowns- But both resulted in distancing and partial "silent treatment"- Not by me, by her-

Sometimes there's no immediate resolution, sometimes all you can do is state your case and deal with the estrangement that may occur as a result of your efforts when the other party backs away-

Of course! I always assume the latter

It depends what they’ve done. Just because they’re family doesn’t mean you have to keep them in your life - if they’re vile or cause endless trouble and trying to explain how you feel about their behaviour would result in WW3 then it makes perfect sense to cut the drama out of your life. Alternatively, if they simply don’t realise that they’re upsetting you and are generally decent, reasonable people then yes, it makes sense to seek a resolution.

No it doesn't farnorth, it makes sense to communicate and seek to resolve it.