only daughter distanced herself and tgecwholecfamily followed suit.

So sorry about your friend, Peonyrose. You are clearly a very kind and caring friend to want to help her.

Please don't beat yourself up about the fact that your advice seems to have backfired. No doubt, you had no idea how the D would react. In hindsight, if D wasn't answering texts or phone calls, chances are she didn't want a visit either. But for all you knew, perhaps she was just busy. You certainly couldn't have known she would blow up at your friend that way.

This could be a case of a D who bled her mum dry and then dumped her when there was no more money left to give. Or it could be that D has some longstanding issues w/ mum but chose to maintain contact as long as she needed whatever mum had to give. Or it could be more complicated than that, as some PPs (previous posters) have said. Hard to know from the outside, etc.

But it doesn't matter now. Your friend needs your support, as others have suggested. IMO, there's nothing "cold" about just listening and nodding, and maybe saying, "I'm so deeply sorry," etc., as you might for any other person who is grieving a loss. If your friend asks for advice, I suggest giving it in the form of suggesting activities and volunteer work, etc. that would fill her life more. Also, IMO, you could hold out the note of hope that PPs have mentioned, the GC will most likely contact her when they are older. As long as you stay away from advice on her relationship w/ ED (estranged daughter), I think you'll be ok. IMO, you're a great friend, and you will help her get through this.

DanceswithOtters, there isn’t always a ‘valid’ reason. Many of us have loved our children dearly, with no abuse, physical or psychological. No parent makes perfect decisions every time when raising a child, there is no perfect parent. However, lots of millennial (self-entitled Personalities) adult children go ‘no contact’ with no ‘valid’ reason. Lets hope you never have to learn this the hard way as so many of us have!

"If there is a problem how can it be solved by just slamming the door and not given reasons, that's why I said ask."

I get this. In fact, I'm wondering if in all the abuse ED screamed at her mum during that encounter, was there a clue as to why she went NC? Even if she couched it in foul language, did she lodge any specific complaints? I'm asking b/c I know that sometimes the message gets lost in the nasty delivery, but it might still be there. For example, an AC might want to say, "I told you over and over not to do this/that w/ my kids, but you wouldn't listen!" but pepper it w/ so many insults and curse words that the parent doesn't "hear" the central message. Did your friend tell you about anything like this?

Agnurse, to suggest it would be appropriate to call the police and her mother arrested, for what. She rang her daughter's door bell and asked calmly can we please try and sort this out. Hardly invasive and challenging behaviour. For sure she won't do that again. it is unthinkable to behave in that way, let alone your mom.
The rest of you thankyou for your insights, I will not interfere but will be there for her. Whatever has happened I think her daughter's reaction is cowardly and cruel. To treat your mom like that is unthinkable. I have not said that, but I know my friend loves her daughter, I fear she will not cope and that she will not get in touch again with d.

Peony,
I am so glad you want to be there for your friend and support her on her low times.
I agree with agnurse.
Please recognize you are not qualified to provide the help your friend needs.
Be there to be her shoulder to cry on.
This is a private matter between mother and daughter, no room for third parties

You also say the whole family followed suit and they do not talk to the mother. Did I read that correctly?
I am afraid you are not getting the whole picture and fact, just only one side.

As for calling the police in this scenario, it may be appropriate.
If the mother has been told not to go to her daughter's home, daughter wanted 0 contact with her mother and the mother still went, it can be interpreted as harassment.
Forcing contact on these situations is almost never a good move.

When you heard the mother's side of the story, did you hear about the mother's feelings/how much she suffers/how it is not fair/how she did everything for her daughter/how she doesn't know what went wrong?
Basically, what happened at the moment of the estrangement and the consequences of it, not about facts that lead to it, just feelings?

I am asking because estranged parents focus on their feelings of abandonment, claim elder and child abuse, they concentrate what happens after estrangement and how they cannot cope.
They are unable to link the past with current situation.

Usually, estranged kids (the estrangers) can give you a detailed account of events, under their point of view, what happened in the past and why the situation is what it is right now.

Example:
Estranged parent: I miss my grandkids and daughter, I haven't seem them for 6 months now and I cannot stop crying
AC: my relationship with my mother was tense and rocky since I was a teenager,.......

As for the gc, as long as they are minors, the daughter has the control. Trying to contact them behind her back will make everything worse.
Once they are adults, they are free to choose.

You were put in an impossible situation really as you had a distressed friend asking for help but you were only in possession of one side of the facts. Of course stay friendly and supportive but do try to keep actual advice or suggestions to a minimum, she has to work this through herself painful as it is. Often as friends we aren't told the whole story and this can make a big difference to the help we might give.

My only child has slowly done the same to me. I haven’t seen or spoken to my grandchildren or him in years. It’s like they all died. I’ve kept it light, sending cards and saying I’ve put money in accounts for the children for birthdays etc. You will grieve, but there’s nothing to be done except wait. I have no other relatives, but have fabulous friends and we are all there for each other. Good friends listen and support and are there to mop up tears.

Peonyrose I have sent you a message suggesting where your friend could get some support. Whether she has contributed to this situation or not she will be very upset and it would be helpful to you if you aren't her only source of support.

Peonyrose

M0nica 's advice is as sound and reasoned as ever.
I totally agree with her reply and send you my best wishes.

Peony,
I just caught something new
You say you feel guilty for giving her the advice of going to her daughter's door

Please don't blame yourself. You did not make her do it, she chose to do it.

Chances are she would have done it herself without your input

Hithere, when the OP said "the whole family," I think she was referring to the GC who are under their mother's control. Am I wrong, Peony?

Also, I don't see anyplace where anyone suggested that Peony contact the GC behind their mother's back. I just see where posters said they may reach out to her when they are adults. Am I missing something?

Peony, I agree with luluaugust's idea that it may be better for both your friend and you if she received some additional support besides yours. Perhaps counseling is in order?

My heart goes out to everyone here who is estranged, whether they're the one who went NC or were CO by another family member.

Starlady,

You are right, contacting the gc being the daughters back has not been mentioned in any posts.

However, I wrote it as it is a common tactic in estrangement.

I should have mentioned that in my post.

Hithere

I agree, peonyrose cannot be held responsible for what her friend does, she has acted only out of kindness

On the face of it, the treatment of this elderly lady seems terrible.

However, it is difficult to know exactly what goes on - or has gone on - in a family, and you have only heard one side of the story.

Hopefully, in time things will cool down. However badly a parent has behaved (apart from physical/sexual or serious mental abuse), I would hope that most adult children could, in their parent's old age, find it in their hearts to try and overcome any resentments. But I don't think someone outside the family, however well meaning, can really do much except be a friend and confidante to this lady.

I wonder if the daughter has a partner. Abusive, controlling people will try to estrange their partner and children from parents (especially as soon as the money runs out).

Peonyrose firstly, please don't beat yourself up over the suggestion you made to your friend. Who could have known that having taken so much from her mother, her daughter would have responded in such a a vile way.

Secondly, your response to agnurse was IMO spot on. For goodness sake agnurse is it any wonder that some AC behave in the way they do when for some, it's considered that calling the police because their mother, who is being ignored and is desperately trying to understand why she's been cut out, would be an appropriate response because she knocks on their door.

Yes, we only get one side of the story, but why do some posters always assume that there must have been some awful behaviour from a parent that finds themselves cut out?

Hithere you cannot possibly know if "usually" estranging AC give detailed accounts, from their point of view, of what's led to the estrangement.

So many EP's have no idea why they've been cut off. Their EAC doesn't tell them directly and the reasons given to others are often total fabrications.

No Starlady you aren't missing anything. There's been no suggestion whatsoever that the OP's friend was encouraged to contact her GC behind her daughter's back.

Sometimes the desire from some posters, who have no personal experience of being estranged, is to leap to the defense of the estranging AC.

We have to accept what we are being told here on GN. It may only be one side of the story but that doesn't mean that the side we're presented with isn't the truth.

Thankyou everyone. My friend has only visited on this one occasion. She had been gradually pushed out of the picture. From babysitting every weekend when children were small, they had their own room, to rarely seeing them when 8 and 10. I haven't spoken with her today, but I will ring tomorrow. At least she definitely knows she is not loved by her daughter, that has finally sunk in she said. Rejection is hard whatever the circumstances.

I'd like to point out that it would be over the top for the daughter to call the police the moment her mother arrived. But, if the mother refused to leave, for example, or if she had previously been told not to come, then it would absolutely be an appropriate response.

In any case, if the daughter had chosen not to have contact, going to her home was not the best move.

Trouble is agnurse whenever you make this suggestion re police in various threads, it comes over as a suggested first response rather than as a possible response if things get beyond control or whatever.

This does come across as a manipulative AC situation. Others have talked about possible hurts and issues from childhood, and these might well be there however they were not it seems sufficient to prevent AC from using her mother for child care (when the children were small) and bleeding her dry of her financial resources! If someone feels really strongly that they should go NC for valid reasons relating to their childhood then surely they would not wait until they had used the parent for child care and financial bail outs!

I agree with your comments Jenpax, she may have a shed load of grievances, but as you say, if that’s the case, she should have walked away years ago

"She had been gradually pushed out of the picture. From babysitting every weekend when children were small, they had their own room, to rarely seeing them when 8 and 10. "

So this was not a sudden thing then. (I realize, rereading your OP, that you said the CO happened after a couple of years of "reduced contact"). It could easily have been that her ED doesn't go out as much on the weekends anymore, that the GC have extracurricular activities on the weekend, or that ED now feels they're old enough to stay w/ a hired childminder. My guess is there were some issues your friend knew about that made her suspect it was something more than that. And that ED had been registering complaints all along, as she cut back contact, but your friend just didn't believe a total CO would happen. Poor woman! But I think we all need to remember that "There but for the grace of God, go I" and not assume it can't happen to us.

Starlady

There but for the Grace of God go I

Always worth remembering, never pays to be too smug about your life!

Calling the police when your mum is at the door? How pathetic is that? The police should only be called when a crime is being committed. Peonyrose, you sound like a wonderful friend, you only did what you thought was right, no one would argue with that. Your friend is lucky to have you.

Well I very much doubt the police would be interested, they’re not too keen to turn out when a crimes committed! An elderly lady knocking her daughters door will be way down their list of priorities