My son is an abuser

@Iam64 I see your point. So I’ll the term ‘neutral distance’ - professional, non-judgemental, dispassionate.

It was an eye opener for both of us who have not witnessed or directly known of such protracted abuse, yet our niece would return to him. Hard to see a young woman who we’ve known from the day she was born subject herself to such bad treatment & hurt. The DV professionals were remarkable & we leaned upon them as we came to accept that our best efforts to help wore us out & just seemed to facilitate the disfunction. Hence my comments @LibbyR about not getting too involved for too long. This is your home & your sanctuary, & you have to keep your own boundaries very strong as the situation can become volatile.

Thank you for the kind words and the links. We are working through this one day at a time. All is quiet at the moment and we are considering what to do next however the baby has settled and his mummy is beginning to relax. I’m really wanting to find a way through this without involving the police and social services, unlikely I know but I don’t want the police and she doesn’t want social services. By supporting her I feel I will almost certainly lose my son but his behaviour has flicked a switch in me that has accepted that. My grandson’s well-being is my priority and my son is old enough to be the author of his own life. I hold my little grandson and he is the image of his daddy at that age and I wonder how did we get to this.

She absolutely cannot go back and with support this time I’m certain she won’t. Her family have had a lot of involvement with social services and sadly she grew up in a very volatile environment and she doesn’t want that for her baby. In contrast our family, although fractured by my partner and I separating when my son was a baby, have led a quiet, sheltered life. I don’t think I’ve ever actually spoken to a policeman whereas her family are very well known to them. Some of her siblings have had their children taken into care however she has never given me any reason to think that she’s not a good mum. She’s always had a job until her maternity leave and has plans to go back soon. She kept their house clean and tidy and seems to really want a different life for my grandson to the one she had a a child. My grandson is spotlessly clean, she plays with him and talks to him all the time. He’s happy and smiley, eats everything he’s given and is thriving..

I don’t have the headspace to challenge my son about this as I have a big work event in a week and then once that’s over we will need to start making plans as quite rightly she doesn’t wish to live here any longer than necessary although she has two bedrooms and a bathroom to herself and her own living space if she wants it and I’m at work all day. She is finding it hard on her own all day in someone else’s house but I’ve been taking over when I get home and giving my gs his bath and having some quality time with him before bedtime and I think she’s appreciated having a few hours to herself to have a soak in the bath or go and do a bit of shopping. She has a eating disorder so finds it difficult to eat with us so I take the baby off while she has a bite to eat alone.

Someone asked - I do have a husband but he’s very straightforward and I tend to keep the majority of the details to myself. We’re not close. He doesn’t ask, he knows they’ve had a row and she’s come to stay but that’s all at present. I will have to give him more detail when it gets difficult which it will I’m sure when we ask for the rest of her things from the house. Technically it’s my house and I’d like her to live there with my grandson but he won’t allow it and has said he’ll smash the place up rather than let her and their son live there so at some point I have the unenviable task of evicting him. If he causes damage then my husband will have him arrested and he will lose everything.

How very difficult for you OP. We all want to be proud of our offspring and I can only begin to imagine your feelings. These DV situations are always challenging to resolve; but you have done well to ensure the safety of your grandchild and his mother.

Unless the situation is compounded by drug and/or alcohol use, the fact she has left him numerous times actually means she is almost certainly getting stronger

You can disagree all you want but this statement you made is still nothing but crap - was my original point that I choose to stand by. You don't even know her at all. All you know is what OP has told you. And as such, you cant use your experience of "supporting people" to draw such biased conclusions.

How do you know she's actually getting stronger? Ever heard of trauma bonding?

Absolutely right notsoagetti it usually takes many attempts for many many reasons to actually leave Its a very complex situation and nothing is cut and dried
I just want people to hear the piece where libby said they are both hot headed and volatile This does not excuse Libby’s sons behaviour one jot, but it may explain some of it especially if the son already suffers mental health problems

I hope they can both get help ....separately
I think you’re a brave lady Libby and I truly hope this can improve for everyone involved

MovingOn2018 - no, I disagree, it is not crap - Iam64 says the last evidence I saw suggested 24 attempts to separate before it actually happens - and although it’s some years since I read papers on it, I know that it generally takes many attempts to leave before the abused partner can leave for good.

I say this through my own experience of supporting people in refuge and outreach. I haven’t just “made it up”. Slowly but surely, many many people build up their will and capacity to leave, they get braver, gain understanding, and thank goodness, many do get out once and for all.

I am not saying that no-one can leave 1st attempt, but please don’t take going back as a failure. it’s oftrn, part of a painful “leaving journey”.

Unless the situation is compounded by drug and/or alcohol use, the fact she has left him numerous times actually means she is almost certainly getting stronger

What a load of crap

I admire you for siding with your son's partner and not your son. Not everyone would do that.

I am very sorry for you.

Granny Square you refer to "the neutral indifference of the DV professionals we met along the way" as something you began to get after a few cycles of separation-reconciliation between a young family member and her abusive partner.

I can genuinely say I haven't worked with any professionals involved with domestic abuse who operated with neutral 'indifference'. Understanding, acceptance that there could be numerous attempts at separation before the abused partner finally made it out and stayed out. That wasn't indifference. Just a calm approach to difficult work. The same thing can happen with family members, learning just how hard it is for people to leave. It may be because of what you call "lurve". More likely its about keeping the family together for the children. Not wise and sensible I know but a real motivator.

No need to apologise notspagetti I didn’t take your comments to heart I just didn’t want you to think I was talking out my backside I am strong because of it and spent 10 years afterwards working with survivors it was a useful and wonderful ten years when people are believed and grow in confidence so I have heard hundreds of stories
I personally loved him for many years after we eventually parted for good and do you know what I know he loved me too he just didn’t have the control and ability to deal with all of life
We weren’t the right people to be together
The daughter in law is safe for now with her mum in law hopefully if they both get some professional help individually life will be easier for them both in the future

You are to be admired for keeping a clear head and doing the right thing, Libby. Very sad situation.
As well as the good advice above, you mention that he's on antidepressants, which must be relevant. Sounds as if he needs more psychiatric investigation. Do you have contact with a male relative who could befriend him and persuade him to go back to his GP?
I can imagine you're torn, as he's still your son.

This is one dangerous man ! I know it's your son but I couldn't allow this physical abuse to happen without reporting it.He will keep on doing it knowing he's getting away with it and there could come a time when he goes too far.

It's a form of control as the victim always blames herself for the battering she gets. I wouldn't hesitate to do something about it whether he loses everything or not this has to stop. It will affect the child seeing mum black and blue and then there'll be another problem to deal with.

GrannySquare of course relationships are complex but LibbyR says her son has behaved like this towards his current partner and it would appear in previous relationships.

@libbyR now that you know about the situation & they know that you know, alas you cannot expect things to change for the better any time soon. You may find that your son & his partner stubbornly repeat & revisit flash points in their relationship & somehow seem to refuse to deal with the reality of their situation. I have already said that the abuse cannot be glossed over or excused, but please do not demonise your son - partly because the dynamic between them is way beyond bad boy:nice girl & also this is placing yourself in their dramatic dynamic as some form of moral authority (more than the moral authority that a mother has).

I am not a pessimist by nature but have become seasoned by time. It was intensely frustrating to support my niece ( & her father) through the dark times for her & her abuser to actively seek each other out because of ‘lurve’. After a few repeat cycles, I got the neutral indifference of the DV professionals we’d met along the way.

What has been done with the baby in arms & more is totally unacceptable. Poor mite. As Gma you are a source of safe warm consistent drama-free love. Baby needs you, so keep hugging.

For your own wellbeing, I strongly urge you to use WA for advice about local services so that your D-not in-Law & baby are rehoused & supported by people who have the experience, training & professional distance to support all parties concerned. However protective you may feel, this is not your drama nor are you obliged to offer anything to offset any guilt or shame you may feel about your son’s actions.

So far, you have just some of the information about a complex situation between two adults. Apply judicious care & thought to your actions - meaning do not get drawn in.

Just be aware that involving the police could end up with your son behind bars as domestic violence is taken very seriously these days (as it should be). Your son needs anger management and before your Dil even thinks about reconciliation she should demand he undertakes an anger management course and goes for counselling. Being nice and considerate to others isn't necessarily a front as there are usually triggers and she knows exactly what buttons to press to set him off. He may very well love her very much but clearly can't control his temper. It's good that you've taken her in but now insist he gets help or you'll involve the police. Better he gets help voluntarily rather than being locked up.

BlueBelle I am so sorry you have lived through domestic abuse. It is all too prevalent. I do know that "excuses" are often made which imply "blame" on both sides. My intention was certainly not to belittle anyones own experience. I am deeply sorry if that is how my comments sound.

I want to add how well you have responded to this shock and distress.
I have nothing to add to the very good advice others have already posted.

Of course you are in shock. Take care of yourself while you are taking care of the DiL and baby. You are doing the right thing. It is so good that you can and did take them in.
I hope you can get help for her and also for you to untangle the situation with your DS later on.

So sorry to hear of your very difficult position. Best wishes

Notspaghetti I have lived through domestic violence so I am very aware of how both parties feel and behave

Also recommend woman's aid. DD2 got lots of help from them including name of good solicitor in family matters, what to do when you want partner to leave, how to protect yourself, contacting bank etc. Glad you are able to help.

Reading this made me feel so sad for all concerned. Your son’s partner really ought to contact women’s aid for help and support. The baby is already aware of the distress in the situation, evidenced by his distress when mum was preparing to leave and his poor settling. I wish you strength and courage as you face this tough situation ?

Unless the situation is compounded by drug and/or alcohol use, the fact she has left him numerous times actually means she is almost certainly getting stronger, Bluebell, not that they both need to realise the relationship is toxic.

She has been so belittled, undermined and humiliated that she probably sees herself as worthless. She has been told she can’t live without him and no-one else would put up with her. How do I know? Because this is standard behaviour of abusive partners.

And yes, of course, he is charming, “kind and caring” - he has to be able to turn this on or he wouldn’t have so much power and control.

I know, LibbyR you will love your son even though his words and actions make you feel sick, but if you want to prevent something worse than you already know, you are right to act now.
Wishing you strength and courage. X

The first consideration is the safety of the mother and child. Therefore, there can be no return home to your abusive son. Support her in whatever else she decides to do.

Secondly, your son needs expert help to overcome his problems, recognise the triggers and develop coping strategies to control his reactions. Seek out that help for him.

How fortunate that you arrived as you did, even better that you took the action you did.
All children suffer emotionally and psychologically when living with domestic abuse. Babies under three are said to experience the same feelings as their mothers. You say this mum was hit when holding the baby. That's a real red flag. The baby could have been seriously physically injured never mind the emotional impact.
The Freedom Project is mentioned by a previous poster. Women's Aid will put you into touch with that, as well as provide good support for your daughter in law and yourself.

It's really up to your daughter in law whether to press charges. it's true that Children's Services are under real pressure but the fact that previous police involvement took place means there will be a record in the social work office.
Step at a time in truth. I do hope your daughter in law doesn't return again. The last evidence I saw suggested 24 attempts to separate before it actually happens. Involving Women's Aid is a good way forward. I do hope it works out for you.

just want to send you a big hug

you must be devastated xxxxx