No sleep and spitting feathers

She sounds very smug telling you this,Maybe her father didn’t know beforehand wonder what he thinks to it. Being an ex superintendent, yes it’s disgusting when People are struggling, she sounds to me as though she knows what she’s doing, which makes it worse, as a father he can give whatever money he likes to his daughter you say he’s been helping her out for years, having never claimed anything ourselves we don’t know how the system works but would imagine you should declare all incomings, but of course if her father is giving her cash she won’t be declaring that will she, I would report her but I’d tell her I was going to if she didn’t stop

I found it interesting that the section of people in receipt of benefits/pensions who were responsible for the greatest number of fraud offences were people in receipt of Retirement Pension (sorry for the over-long sentence). I’m going back 6 years. The data was provided by the Fraud Section.

Gosh - does she have any idea what will happen if/when she gets found out? I know this lady doesn't have dependent children but we were completely shocked when the mother of one of our children's friends ended up in prison (I think it was around 6 or 9 months) for fraud - she was claiming benefits she was not entitled to. They appeared to have everything - lovely house, car. etc, but she said she was a single parent living/claiming elsewhere. The poor child had to live with relatives whilst mum was inside and we never ever saw mum again - we guessed she was too ashamed to show her face.. We think they moved away.
It is probably only a matter of time before she is caught - can't imagine she will think that it was worth it then.

I have anonymously reported people to the relevant authorities before now. I find it doesn’t sit with me to know of fraud and keep quiet about it

*Doodlebug Council tax is a benefit and she is not entitled to it and can be prosecuted for claiming it dishonestly, fraud and blatant theft of public resources.

Her UC would be lower - or even non-existent - if it was known she had income from other sources, namely her father and a resident son, who whether he actually pays for his keep or not will be deemed to do so by the BA.

AS GrannySomerset says, rules is rules and they apply to everyone.*

Yes, and I have repeatedly agreed that if the son is not paying Council Tax elsewhere then they should pay the full amount. I'm not sure that the discount is a benefit as such - it is available to anyone who lives in a property alone, regardless of income or circumstances (including whether or not they have paid NI contributions), but that is splitting hairs, I suppose.

Presents from relatives do not count as income when it comes to UC. How could it possibly be policed? I suppose that if there is a regular standing order going into a bank account then it would be traceable, but cash transactions would be impossible to trace, and a police inspector would surely be aware of this.

I don't think that legally or morally it is wrong to help out a child (of any age) who has fallen on hard times, just as I don't see an issue with helping out a parent. The number of people on here who seem to think that people should basically have nothing before being entitled to any sort of benefits is worrying, I think. Would people go round to claimants' houses on Boxing Day and deduct the value of any presents from their benefits? Should a family member not be allowed to invite claimants over for dinner without it being declared? Where would you draw the line?

I am not saying that anyone should be above the rules - just that in this case, there are no rules that say that charity should not begin at home, nor that gifts from family members are disallowed. The son is a different matter, if he is a permanent resident, rather than a visitor.

As has been said, money from family doesn't count. I had a student who was a single parent, unemployed and had most of her rent and council tax paid from benefits.

She had her own horse and sports car, had a glamorous lifestyle (holidays, plastic surgery, stylist, cleaner, gardener, etc.) yet wasn't officially cheating the system. Her family helped her out a lot - and, yes, it was pretty sickening that she felt the need to claim benefits at all!

Livlass should know that her stepdaughter is responsible for getting and paying her son's contribution towards the rent and council tax. She could face a massive pay back bill when it's discovered that he's living there. As a tax payer, I really resent supporting him!

It's morally wrong anyway but maybe like doodle here she is not aware that she is really stealing. Rather like when people stole from Woolworths or any big company they felt less guilt because it wasn't like they were taking from an individual.

The Councils up and down the land get high quotes from tradesmen when work is put out to tender.
I know because it's happening in my town right now and the trades boast about it.

Her son is there, there should be an income from him to the household. He’s not a dependent child, he’s a grown man “ with a good job in the city”. She gets a monthly allowance from her father, much like you’d get a monthly salary. If she has savings over a certain amount, I think £16,000, this could mean she wouldn’t get universal credit at all. From the OP, it sounds like the daughter knows she’s not entitled, to the point someone pointed out it almost sounds like she’s gloating. We all know it’s wrong, and the OP won’t ever be able to relax now she is privy to it. If it was me, I’d be so angry with her and my husband, particularly as my own daughter has done everything right. I would owe it to my daughter, if nothing else, to put this right.

Doodlebug Council tax is a benefit and she is not entitled to it and can be prosecuted for claiming it dishonestly, fraud and blatant theft of public resources.

Her UC would be lower - or even non-existent - if it was known she had income from other sources, namely her father and a resident son, who whether he actually pays for his keep or not will be deemed to do so by the BA.

AS GrannySomerset says, rules is rules and they apply to everyone.

It is interesting to notice how we are either rules-based people or not - the responses fall into clearly different camps. If you are someone (as I am) who thinks rules should apply to everyone then finding the behaviour detailed in the OP’s post shocking is inevitable; it isn’t a matter for sitting on the fence at all.

fraud, there is no other word for it.

What is being defrauded, apart from a possible 25% discount on the council tax, which has nothing to do with the benefit system?

She obviously expected OP to share her delight at her fraud. I am afraid that like sodapop, I would have made my disapproval very clear indeed.

However she is likely to be caught out, on income at least. She may be showing Benefits Agency a nice 'clean' bank statement, but all banks, building societies, insurance companies, quoted companies etc have to make annual declarations to HMRC, listing every one who is a customer/investor with the organisation and the size of their funds invested with them and any interest paid. The HMRC pass these on to the Benefits Agency who then take appropriate action.

How do I know? I was a Benefits Advisor with what was once Age Concern and I had to help several clients who had received demands to repay benefits they had been received because they had building society or bank accounts, they failed to mention when filling in benefit's forms.

Once they find you have cheated on one benefit, that is passed on and the LA will start checking on Housing Benefit and Council Tax Bnefit.

Sit back and enjoy it while she does and then enjoy the feelings of shadenfreude, when the Benefits Agency catch up with her.

Its theft and should be treated as such. I would, however much it would upset the family, inform on her. The benefit agency will take details, even asking you for a description of her and then put a watch on her house.

What sort of example is this to her children and as for your husband, well as an ex policeman he should know better and back you. Go for it.

Awkward but I would keep out of it she will be found out eventually.

I sympathise. You’re in a difficult position.
I have a similar dilemma. My son’s Partner is claiming PIP. She uses it to fund a Motability car. She lied to the assessor about her mobility. She gets around very well and even walks their dog regularly!!
When I see programmes on the TV or radio about disabled people being refused PIP and saying the assessments are tough, I just don’t understand how she gets away with her fraudulent claim. It’s fraud - clear and simple.

It’s wrong.
You falling out with her and the family will not make it right.
If you feel you need to make clear your opinion, do so, but then move on.
Don’t allow it to cloud your relationships.

The fact that she told you, sounds like your SD was bragging. Why does her DF give her an allowance at all never mind at 59 years of age? That should stop. Your SD is robbing the public purse. SD must have separate bank accounts for some of her funds as doesn't DWP expect to see statements now and again. Her benefits and household expenses in one all other income and expenses in the withheld one. It's criminal. The fact others do it doesn't make it right. Leave a few months and then report anonymously.

Tigertooth I dont think shes jealous shes just trying to give a description as well as shes really angry actually shes really annoyed rightly so.

If she is stealing money (whether from the government or an individual), that is theft. Money which she does not need should be used for those who do need it.

Her moral values are non existent and whether or not it would cause a family fall out is not relevant. I wouldn't want her to think that it is acceptable behaviour and that I condone it.

I would say that she had to give full details of her income to the benefits agency now, or I will.

If you saw her steal from an elderly person's purse - would you ignore it. Benefit fraud is exactly the same.

My daughter is disabled and many, like her, have to fight every inch of the way for financial help. It makes my blood boil to read how some people are defrauding the system, for this is what it is, fraud, there is no other word for it. I wish more people had the courage to report these fraudsters. I can understand your anger Livlass, who wouldn't be?

I must admit these things do irritate. Like many on here I have a daughter who works all hours as the sole provider for her family with her husband being a househusband. She has always been just above the threshold for child tax credits so not well off but they manage. I sometimes get irritated when others we know work part time ...receive the appropriate benefits for this and then go and work cash in hand. She is so lovely and just puts a like when she sees them having ski ing and exotic holidays which she can't affford. Hey ho ...such is life and I would never dream of reporting anyone.Where would you stop?
Many small businesses doing the books take some work cash in hand to avoid some tax. How many pay cash for that new bathroom/kitchen to cut out paying VAT. What about the pensioner doing a bit of gardening for cash to supplement his pension? All small losses to the tax system that mount up. And as for big business ...where would we start?

I don't like benefit fraud but let those who are paid to do so find out the cheaters. In op's situation I wouldn't risk the type of long term fall out which could occur by reporting her stepdaughter.

Actually, she should be declaring ANY income that comes in, including daddys regular handout.
So, more fraud.

I don't care how old she is. If my children needed me I would help if I could - no question, and it wouldn't be anyone else's business. I understand the OP being peeved if her husband has set this up without telling her, but given her attitude to the step-daughter, it is perhaps understandable why he didn't.

We don't know the situation with the son. If he lives there, and has no other address, then yes - they should pay the full council tax, but as far as I can see, their only crime is not to return the 25% discount.

None of the rest of it deserves all the opprobrium on this thread. The woman is claiming a benefit to which she is entitled, after paying in for years. She has a few quid in savings or redundancy payment (not a lot, or it would have been taken into account when her benefits were worked out), and she uses them to run a car and keep her hair looking nice. Her father helps her out in her time of need. Her son is doing ok, but is in his 20s and not responsible for his mother.

I repeat that yes, they should pay the council tax that is relevant to their circumstances, but otherwise there is no case to answer, surely?

Report her anonymously. She's breaking the law. No one would condone her if she was a burglar or a shop lifter. People, especially perpetrators, seem to think it's a victimless crime but it isn't. She's not only stealing £thousands per year from a system that is already struggling but is laughing at the rest of us fools who pay into the system and only claim their entitlements when necessary, Phone them up and say you overheard her or someone told you about this woman who lives in such and such street who is claiming housing benefit and UC even though she has income that she has not declared. You can be as vague as you like.....she may be in her 50s/not been claiming long/etc, Believe me they'll find her from that small amount of information. It may take them a few months but they'll do it. I know it's not easy to shop family but sometimes things have to be done. I shopped my BIL. No one ever suspected me. I'd suspected him for years and finally snapped when he claimed to be disabled and got a Motability car. It never went to court ...most cases don't...but he had to pay back a lot of money and now only gets the amount he's entitled to.

Good grief Doodledog, she’s a 59 year old woman! It’s not help she’s getting, it’s a regular allowance. That constitutes an income. It’s not the amount she’s defrauding, but the principle. If the son has a good job, then he should be contributing. Comparing her to what others do or have isn’t the point. The fact is, they should all be reported, but we don’t know who they are. She’s come clean to her step mum, so is probably feeling guilty, and quite right too.