Step-daughter

I think your husband and Polly might see each other without you, if this does not intrude too much on your marital shared time. It's not as if Polly were your daughter in which case it would be discourteous and even cruel to exclude you.

Polly seems socially disabled. It's hard to tell whether or not her father is doing her any good to cushion her so much however it shows he is a responsible and affectionate man. You are fortunate to have such nice husband.

I wonder if your step daughter is a drain on a shared bank account. Maybe it would be better if you had a separate bank account from your husband's, in case he reacts too impulsively to Polly's demand and needs?

If Polly is pregnant or has a baby to care for you may be loaded with the extra work instead of her late mother.

I totally agree with Alexa , treat her as your husbands responsibility, totally separate from your family and try not to stress about it.

I think your doctor friend may be right. She definitely sounds like more than a spoilt brat. Sadly, there is nothing you can do if your husband won't even countenance the idea. All you can do is back away from the situation. The more you push your husband the worse it will get. The one time I would act is if she has a baby and fails to care for it properly. Then I would contact social services because the baby would have to come first.

There is little you can do about your husband and stepdaughter's relationship; he clearly feels huge guilt about her, and she knows how to manipulate him.
You have to distance yourself from her, don't insist on seeing her or even discussing her possible medical conditions; your husband doesn't want to hear and it will only add fuel to the fire. Block abusive texts and phone calls if they come to you and don't read those sent to your husband.
Concentrate on maintaining your marriage and good relationships with all your children; this woman is destructive but the rest of the family see her for what she is. You won't stop your husband from feeling responsible for her; only he can do that, but make sure it is only his time and money that supports her; keep yours separate.

Sorry, but I observe a similar mother/daughter relationship where the mother funds the daughter's lifestyle, totally selfish and slightly unbalanced, no real career, mid-thirties, now expressing a desire for a sperm donor baby, both ignore the father's concerns and castigate him for being mean.

Interesting to get advice that I should distance myself. I try to do this but it is very hard of course. I've always felt Polly should have time on her own with her dad, but the issue is this is always set up in a very exclusionary, last minute intrusive way. EG we have a party or something planned and she'll announce he has to go to hers at exactly that moment. Lately DH has discussed with me and his son not giving in to her on all occasions and trying to get her to be reasonable. I think I'll have to distance myself from baby plans and I have told DH that I won't move near her with him (he suggested this) so he can be surrogate dad and I would be the housekeeper no doubt. I'm saying to him just don't encourage her or mislead her into thinking you'll pay for a child etc.

I think I posted because we had a row about this and I woke really worried. Thank you for your help.

Maybe her mother recognised the same mental health issue she herslf had in Polly .As the mother of a child who has had severe mental health problems there is no way I would ever walk away from.We also gave her shed loads of cash ,did housework etc etc .It took a lot of hard work to get her to a MH specialist and only after a suicide attempt .She's fine now 20 years later but she has multiple health issues that can make her severely depressed.
I still do housework and washing and childcare for her family.I f your OH is anything like me he'll do anything to see his daughter smile .Maybe you should step back from the situation ,people only see what they want and what they want to see is spoilt manipulative girl .It may well be her mother saw her in her darkest place and thats why she was happy to support her any way she could .

Not quite sure what you mean by "step back from the situation" Paddyanne with the implication that I am seeing what I want. I'm afraid this is not a situation that I can step back from. My DH is sometimes up virtually all night fielding angry texts from Polly. I think most people can acknowledge that having a family member with MH problems is very difficult indeed and I am so glad that you got the support for your daughter and stuck with her. Don't know if you have other children but getting the balance correct is difficult. Her mother was in despair about Polly and often confided in friends how desperate she felt because she was so regularly under attack from Polly. These friends told us this after mum's death.
One thing that has helped me is writing everything down and thinking about it with comments from here. What I do think is that Polly has serious problems and, I agree, these require some compassion and probably a very long term management plan on our part. But she does put enormous strain on all of us and most of all on DH and me so we need our strategies to manage and have some time for us, especially as we age and also have the other children and GC to help with.

I think you and your husband need some help to deal with your stepdaughter Rubylou
Some counselling or a support for the two of you. It's always difficult when one family member expects so much more attention than the others. You need a compromise with your husband about what he feels he needs to do and his expectations of you.
I agree with Alexa make sure your finances are separate from those of your husband. Make it clear how much help you are prepared to give and stick with that. You have to balance the needs of your whole family and that's not easy.

I agree with Paddyanne about stepping back. And I say it as someone with a difficult daughter.

There have been times when I have not answered her calls or messages if she is impinging on my peace of mind. Your DH does NOT have to answer the texts. If he chooses to and it keeps you away, either ask him to sleep in another room, or if he refuses, YOU sleep in another room. If there is a crisis, let him go alone to deal with it.

My partner also has a difficult daughter. I refuse to get involved. If it interrupts something we are doing, I will continue alone. Not my child, not my problem. I feel sorry for him, but she is a situation of his making.

You need boundaries. They start in your mind before you can enact them. Admittedly, you can't change what your DH does , but you can change what YOU do and tolerate.

You are right about what will happen if she has a baby, however. My daughter has done this. It is both good and bad. My GS is the apple of my eye. BUT daughter used him to manipulate me. I've taken myself out of that situation and live further away now.

It certainly seems that this is a common situation and I really thank you all for commenting. I am very thankful to you GagaJo in explaining what you mean by stepping back - yes, I think this is a good idea. Actually DH is showing signs of being able to manage some boundaries and one of these, I hope, will be to switch his phone to silent from 11pm until 8am. But yes, if he won't, I should sleep elsewhere. I also think we should explore counselling together and maybe with stepson. We need to collectively work out something and not keep it as a stressful secret. DH certainly used to think that it was his duty to keep it all secret. He was shocked to discover that mum had confided everything in friends, though I told him this is what women do, we need and ask for support and thank goodness she did get emotional support. It's tough facing these things alone.

So sorry you're facing this situation, Ruby. Glad you came to us. No doubt, it's better to confide in people who don't know SD (stepdaughter) and aren't likely to inadvertently let your comments slip, etc.

I agree w/ you and others that some boundaries need to be set. I hope DH can bring himself to do it, I know it will be harder for him than you. But if he doesn't, I agree that you need to set some for yourself (like going to sleep in another room).

Also, I think you and DH should, indeed, get some counseling on how to handle this situation. Especially since there may be a baby soon. I have no doubt that DH will be very tempted to help support that baby if SD cries out to him for financial help. I don't think you'll be able to fight this w/o doing damage to your marriage, unless you two have professional guidance. Please give it some thought.

Also, IMO, it's beautiful that SS (stepson) and GF are close to you. But please don't worry about them too much. Clearly, they can speak up for themselves. And they are adults, they're relationship w/ DH is theirs to handle (or not).

She behaves like this because she was allowed to by her parents . If her father keeps letting her behave in this manner it will not stop . Your husband is the only one who could put a stop to this . Have you explained to him that her behaviour is destroying your marriage . Polly is no longer a child and he should stop her behaving like one . Good luck I think your going to need it .

Having been in a situation where a manipulative sociopath was taking all my husbands attention ...
I tealised ithey were feeding off me
Getting a reaction
Causing drama ...
I removed myself emotionally
Wrote a letter
Told them i undestood their behaviour and selfish need for constant attention
Had watched the playing out of scenarios
Decided they had disrespected me as a woman
Wanted nothing more to do with them
Added they were at liberty to see my husband as his decisions were his responsibility
But they no longer existed for me ...
This meant the triangle was broken
My husband no longer visits her and barely speaks to her
I was keeping their relationship alive by validating it
Step back
Be your own person
Listen if he comments
Tell him you are not interested in her sillyness
It will work
No oxygen from you
It will die

I feel that your DH is enabling her to act so badly and selfishly, so as others say, you both need help to manage her. She def needs boundaries, tough love etc Ask DH how he thinks she will cope when he is not around anymore, so unless he helps her in a more practical way, he is assisting her eventual breakdown. She has alienated you and her brother, so how would she cope alone. No one should disrupt others sleep unless it’s a genuine emergency, she clearly has major issues and needs help herself badly.

A very good friend of mine married a widower with 2 daughters - 1 of the girls was fine with her, but the youngest was a nightmare. 7 years on, she found out that her DH had been supporting the youngest for years, taking money out of their joint savings plus out of his pension - thus affecting HER future as well as his own. he then expected her to top up the cost of holidays, etc. After trying all sorts of different things, my friend took legal advice and asked DH that they legally separated their money and their legal responsibility for each other's debts. He refused, so she decided it was time to look after herself and her own future - and divorced him. Sometimes there really is no other way out of a situation like this - if he won't change how he's dealing with her, then you will need to change how you deal with him. As a first step, try Relate counselling to see if you can both sort this out with the help of someone who isn't involved in all of it, but don't take divorce off the table. This is not going to change (because, in a weird way, they're both getting something out of it) and, if she has a baby, will only escalate.

I think as Carly says you need to check all joint finances,pension,wills etc to make sure your future is secure.

I'm a mental health nurse and it does sound very much as if your step-daughter has some some type of personality disorder. These patients are notoriously difficult to treat and work with. Also the immediate family often need help and support too which I feel you maybe should seek

Boundaries boundaries. Polly has none so she texts in middle of night , DH has none so he answers, you suffer the consequences. polly needs a therapist because your DH is not able to help her just makes her dependent. She needs to start taking responsibility for herself and DH probably isn’t skilled enough to get her there. She does sound like she has a disorder and so she would cause havoc not even aware of it. But I hope you get help

Does your husband even know you feel like this? I would show him your post and replies, and then work from there. Your step daughter sounds like she needs medical help, but your husband needs help too. You and he could try counselling. It must be so draining for you, and you need to keep your health, and heads above water, for the benefit of the step daughter.

I agree with Carly and BusterTank's comments. I have two step-daughters, one is ok-ish the other sounds rather like Polly. If i knew then, what I know now, I would run for the hills. Good luck OP, sadly, I think you may need it.

There are a lot of issues here and it must be really difficult for both of you. I have such a DD, (anxiety, possibly ASD or BPD) and it is the one thing my husband and I row about. He sees her behaviour as manipulative, hurtful and unforgivable whilst I am always looking for ways to manage it. The more he is blunt about it, the more I feel the need to defend her. She is what she is but at the end of the day, she is my daughter. I brought her into this world (without taking into account her father's personality disorder) and I have a responsibility towards her. I may not always like her behaviour but I love her dearly. Sadly, her brothers have escaped her demons so we have an easier relationship which just highlights to her that she is less important.
I agree with those saying a step back is the way forward! I think you have to have some ground rules with your husband. Maybe your husband should keep your plans for social engagements and the like to himself so his DD cannot manipulate the situation. Every time she makes an arrangement to exclude you, he can acknowledge that he will enjoy spending time with her and it will give you the opportunity to enjoy doing something you like to do. He should agree not to keep secrets about the money but maybe only give her money which will be beneficial for her mental health, not something which will be just to keep her quiet. I would leave him to make the decisions about his spare money but ask the questions like, "Do you think paying for fertility treatment will be fair on a child if your daughter is struggling with...?" or "Are we enabling her to be dependent? I am worried about how she will cope when we're not around." It is about reframing your objections about what is good for her rather than because she is manipulative. It is much harder for a partner to be defensive if you look like you have their child's best interests at heart.
I fully understand why your DH will want to have his phone on at night. Although the chances of her ever doing anything to harm herself, he probably worries that she will and it is possible she has even threatened to. You can switch your phone to "Do not Disturb" mode which will show when messages arrive (so he can still check without waking you) but they will arrive silently.
As with all things, it is much easier to deal with if you can take the heat out of the situation. Just as Gransnet can be very helpful, talking things over with a counsellor can give you room to vent and find ways forward.

Dear RubyLou.
I am so sorry you have been blighted by this person. Before you mentioned your SiL's thoughts I was thinking of Borderline Personality Disorder or perhaps narcissistic PD. Not that I am saying she has it! It actually is not really important unless you or someone can get her to see a Doctor who will refer her. It's the things she does, her behaviour, that is the problem and it is that which you somehow have to find a way to cope with. However, the diagnostic terms are useful for looking up coping strategies.

Has she made suicide attempts or ever threatened suicide? If she does, take it seriously and get help.

The point about mentioning BPD is that it sums up the impossible behaviours she presents, whether or not she actually meets the criteria for a diagnosis (e.g. It has to be life long and happen in all situations, among other demanding criteria.) But having this insight means you can learn about how to cope with the difficult behaviour which she presents and stop it from spoiling your life and your relationship with your DH. It is worth looking up BPD and learning how to cope with it. She will not change. You cannot change her. You can only decide how to cope with this situation in your life and it is one of the most difficult ones.

I am very sorry that this woman is coming between you and your DH. It might be worth asking for counselling. Unfortunately such people are unreasonable and so talking to them, for instance about the baby idea, is not likely to get you anywhere except to upset you.

I would set up my boundaries with her. She is not your daughter and she is an adult. Make it clear that you will only tolerate being treated with respect and spoken to courteously. Try to remain calm and serene around her and not let her see that she is upsetting you. If you are unsure about how to set your boundaries I recommend Stephanie Lyn on You Tube. Your DH needs to learn about this too. I would be inclined to tell him she is trying to come between you both and is trying to gain his attention at all times to stop him being with you. He has to set his boundaries and stop pandering to her. Nobody can carry a person like this woman. She will keep adding the demands on you or her father the more you or he keep trying to accommodate her. Eventually one of you will break. Then she will blame you for her problems.....

Please learn how to set your boundaries and tell your DH what you are doing and that he needs to do the same. He must put his marriage before his relationship with this daughter now she is an adult. It's time he showed her some tough love.

Wishing you all the best and praying that you and DH find a way through this. Try youtu.be/upRc-R0uhh8 or look for others if this one is not appropriate for you.
For BPD try youtu.be/zzp8IJIW1MQ

No, you cannot stop an adult from having a baby, however unsuitable a mother you fear she will make.

In my opinion, you need to have a serious talk with your husband about the money issue.

He has been supporting Polly for years, that is his business as long as he wasn't using your money to do so, or money from a joint account.

What worries me about this is that he has lied to you about the extent of his support.

Another very valid point is, that unless he has given his son similar amounts, which I don't think he has, or you would have mentioned it, he is being very unfair to his son, unless of course he has stipulated in his will that the amounts his daughter has received is in lieu of her inheritance, or is to be deducted from it.

You would be wise to sort the money issue out now.