Daughter

It is natural to want to help a daughter in your daughter's position, but please take into consideration that you are being a little unfair on your sons. They never ask for help. Probably, they are happy that you help their sister out, but all the same, unless you give them the same, it isn't quite fair.

I would keep very careful account of the money the girl has received and add a codicil to my will, stating that the amount she owes you at your demise is to be deducted from her inheritance.

I would also tell her frankly, that I could no longer lend her money, but that I would help her make out a budget and talk to her bank manager and to social security. If neither she nor her partner are in work, but have children to support she should be entitled to some help.

If her landlord turns her out because she doesn't pay her rent, social security will have to step in.

You are, unfortunately, enabling her to live so irresponsibly by stepping in and helping. I understand why you are doing it, I too would find it hard not to, but in the long run it will be better for your daughter if you stop, now.

I apologise if this sounds harsh, but I have been in a similar position and came to realise that I was doing no good.

I was in a similar situation to my daughter, 20 years ago. The difference was at the time there was a safety net and I was able to get back on my feet, house myself and child, and back into work. The services I accessed are no longer there. The reality of the current system is that there is minimal help available.

I understand the need for benefit reform, but the reality of the situation is that people can be left without money for up to 6 months. You can't sofa surf if you have children.

The ultimate reason for benefit reform was to cut funding to the poor, those deemed undeserving by the elite in control. In reality, tax avoidance costs FAR more than the benefit cheats who used to be able to access the system. The difference is, the benefit cheats ARE the elite and therefore they perpetuate the system that supports them.

Like some others say...I’m sorry but you are enabling your 40+ daughter to behave like an irresponsible teenager. No need to have kids you can’t afford these days.... let her get on with her responsibilities to her kids ...you can keep a wary eye on them ...but DONT give her money. Occasionally drop by with bag of groceries ... buy kids school uniforms when necessary.... shoes if necessary , but stop enabling g her WITH money . You do t know where it’s going, and you can bet some will find its way into her ‘partners’ pockets.!

You perhaps might benefit from reading up on Co-dependency which I think is about enabling people. Your daughter is not going to change or learn how to take responsibility for her own life by constantly giving her money. Veyr difficult as none of us want to see our children suffer but sometimes tough love is the answer.

Get your daughter an appointment with the Citizens Advice and go along with her. They will do a check on all that she is entitled to with 4 children. They will then look at all her debts and work out a payment plan thus then contacting all her debtors so that she can manage on what she gets. That in itself will eventually give her confidence in herself that she can manage her finances. A whole weight will come off her shoulders as will a whole weight come off your shoulders too. To do this will take a number of appointments with the Citizens Advice but it will be worth it for her own self respect and the people who work there are not there to judge her but get her on track...plus everything is confidential. She will thank you for it once everything is put in place and she sticks to the plan made for her. The hardest part for her is going to her first appointment...but the people working with her will treat her with the utmost respect...they will be kind & helpful. I know because I have been an Advisor with the Citizens Advice...there is no better satisfaction for an Advisor than to see their Client walk out the door feeling better in themselves, walking tall and equipped with a plan that keeps them on the straight and narrow and more independent in themselves. Who knows...she may then get rid of the ball & chain (partner) who is not helping her cause. The Citizens Advice is there to help in all areas of life...they can also sign post you to other organizations for support. She wont regret it if she goes along...it sounds like she has got a bit lost & overwhelmed in life and needs to know what is there to help her. xx

No maintenance from the twins father and limited from the other ones. All losers I’m afraid. She’s In Private rental and on some benefits. She started working in a nursery last year as her little one could go along too, and she has level 3 NVC certificates. Her benefits Immefiately stopped and she was worse off. She had to go through hoops to get it back and had to give up the job. A vicious circle. Again we bailed her out. One drama after another I’m afraid.

I am in a similar situation but far worse. I hear the advice, but when your child is desperate,what can a mother do, especially if they fear the consequences if they refuse.

I think as well as talking straight to your daughter about money and how to manage it better you need to talk to her about her responsibilities as a mother. She is behaving really badly and is showing you no respect. Change how you treat her, you must have known you would not get the money back so why lend money to her. As others have said do not hand over money at all, buy groceries, clothes for the children. The partner does not have responsibility for the children if they are not his but does not sound a benefit to the family. Hopefully child number 5 won’t be arriving. How has she arrived at being 41 and be so irresponsible?

dontmindstayinghome, you can sell up and move into a rental home which will allow your rent to be paid. My daughter did it because of the change in the rules which meant mortgage interest is paid but is charged against your house. My daughter was only getting half of what anybody on housing benefit would be receiving which made it a cheap option for the Government but this stupid rule meant that she had no option but to sell up before she owed more than the house was worth. She is significantly disabled so she cannot work. Her husband does work but is also her and the children's carer so they are never going to earn big bucks. Of course, I am assuming you are in the UK for the rules to apply.

Gingster I have to agree with the others who say you are not enabling your daughter to stand on her own two feet. I know it is really hard to watch them make bad decisions but they never learn if they know that there is somebody to catch them. They also show their children that they do not have to take responsibility for their actions and her children may not have a parent with a magic money pot. The logic that you grandchildren will suffer is actually one of the things that will likely increase their suffering in the long run. Sometimes, you just have to be cruel to be kind.
Your daughter not talking you every time you tackle this is working to keep you in line. If you daughter has 4 children, she is no doubt entitled to help which will include child tax credits, Universal Credit, etc. These benefits will include money for rent. It may not be a luxury lifestyle she will be able to have but with careful planning she could manage. I suggest you tell her that the pot has run dry and get her good financial advice from some of the Charities out there.

H1954, you took the words straight out of my husband‘S mouth! That’s exactly what he said when he read this, only perhaps not quite as politely as you.

I think some of you don't really understand the difficulties of life for those on a very low income these days.

Oopsadaisy, benefits are SO rigidly enforced now that it can be almost impossible to get help. My own daughter is unable to get any realistic financial support from benefits for a range of reasons, despite having worked all of her adult life until she had my grandson. This has been checked and double checked. This is the reality of life on a low income in the UK these days. The days of benefit scroungers are long gone (good thing that those that don't need them are now unable to access, bad that it's made it nigh on impossible for many who genuinely need help).

I partly agree with the enabling comment, but as grandparents, we have a double concern. No, we don't want to enable adult children to be eternally reliant on us, but equally, we cannot stand by and watch our grandchildren's lives blighted by adult children that refuse/are unable to be totally independent. I want my grandson to have the opportunities other children have and consequently, I accept that I will have an ongoing partial-responsibility for him.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

If neither of them are working they will be getting help with paying the rent, also benefits for the children. I agree with another reply maybe help out abit with stuff the kids needs.

Oh so sad.
Really feel for you and having read the lots of good advice I would worry about your daughter's partner who is clearly no help.
So many of us help our children with money and my thoughts are if you can afford it so it. We gave our only son a large chunk of cash when they first bought a house even though we had only my husband's pension as I was recovering from a stroke and had no work.
But she does need to be responsible for her own finance and if that means benefits so be it. Giving her a supermarket shop and essentials for the children might be a better move now.
Eventually the children will move on and then what

2 words - tough love! As long as she knows you will pay she won't bother. I know it's hard but it's time she took care of herself, why would she if she knows you'll do it. Everything you've said makes me think you already know what needs to be done. So she may become homeless, she has a partner she's fit to work let them get on with it instead of sponging off you! I know it will be hard on you watching the children be homeless but that's the mothers responsibility! Whatever you do don't let them move in with you or they'll never move out and what you've been paying now is nothing to what you'll have to fork out in the future!

Sorry, but if her and her partner are on a low income, they should be claiming Universal Credit that will cover most if not all of her rent. If he is unemployed they will also be entitles to a reduction on their council tax.
Stop the payments to them now. She is an adult and old enough to pay her own rent and if not, it's up to her and her partner to sort it out.
Sadly, unless you put your arrangement in writing, there is nothing you can do. Maybe tell her that every pound you give her now is a pound less she'll get after you've gone!

I feel so much for you Gingster. We had years and years of this with my daughter to the tune of thousands of pounds. She sometimes got lump sums of money herself, house sales (before repossession), redundancy etc and always blew the money. She was a bad picker of men but it used to break my heart to think of her homeless and with no food.

She now lives in a house provided by my other daughter and helps out with the children in exchange. Yet again she has given up her other job and is now totally dependent on my other daughter.

I really don't know what the answer is for you and if she will ever change. You can only do what makes you able to live with yourself. I think buying directly for the grandchildren is a good idea. It is so hard to cut them off entirely, financially I mean.

Only you can decide. You're not going to get the money back BUT if you stop paying would she in fact be made homeless or would her current partner step up to the plate and get a steady job , would they start to budget appropriately and find the money somehow, would social services step in? You'll never know because I suspect you will just carry on paying as most of us would to protect daughter and grandchildren. Perhaps you could just have a heart to heart with her and help her sort out her finances?

I also agree with helping out by giving specific things, food, children's shoes etc that'll directly help the GC. As others have said there are other ways to get help with the rent and if she won't look into them maybe you should do a bit of research, online at present. The fathers should be making some contribution to their children, any hope of that?

Stop paying her rent, and tell her to put the money she owes you toward the rent instead of giving it to you. Birthday and Xmas gifts for her (not GC) tell her you will deduct some of what she owes. This way you are still helping, but also encouraging her to be responsible.

Sorry posted too early. As for her rent she should be claiming benefits to cover this.
She’s taking you for a mug. Sorry to be so harsh. Stop Paying. She’s an adult and needs to stop abusing your kindness and stand on her own two feet.

Do you need the money you are giving her. Is it actually leaving you short. Do you really need the money back.
I’ve obviously been watching too much Judge Rinder.
If the answer to the questions I’ve asked are all yes. Then you need to put it in writing and create a legal relationship with you daughter and her partner. Create a payment plan with an end date. Otherwise you are plainly gifting it and will probably not see a penny of it back.

Vampirequeen, I admire your practical mindset and ability with facts and your advice is good.

I think there is a great difference between helping out and propping up. I think your daughter needs to be told that enough is enough and it’s time she took responsibility for herself and her children.
Where are the various fathers for her children? Does she not know about birth control?

Your daughter is taking advantage of you either by intention or out of habit. You need to stop this. As someone said earlier, rather than pay part of the rent why not buy the grandchildren shoes/clothes (not all of them), pay for school trips (not all of them) and occasional groceries (not every week or even on a regular planned basis). That way you're still helping the family especially your grandchildren.

I guess she's claiming benefits. Is she claiming everything she can get? Where abouts in the UK is she? Is it a high rent area. I did a quickie calculation on Turn 2 Us for someone in a situation similar to your daughter's. Of course I had to guess children's ages/gender etc but allowing for that she must be getting around £400 per week and it will be even more if she's in a high rent area. Then there will be free school meals when the children go back to school.

I had an elderly neighbour who was drained in this way by her son. Like you she worried about them losing their home and the grandchildren not getting what they needed. After she ran out of savings, she started to take out loans so that she could still help him. Eventually it had to stop and oddly the family didn't become homeless or starve.

You say this is already causing trouble between you and your DH. Listen to him. Your marriage is important. You've worked hard for your money and it should be yours to help you enjoy your retirement not be used to fund your daughter.