Have you told your child how much they hurt you, and does it help?

I find it quite telling that your response to sensing your daughter is pulling away from you is to focus on how you feel and how upsetting it is making you.

Rather than - why? Why is my daughter pulling away from me?

I wouldn't share these thoughts with your daughter, she will find them hurtful and once said can't be taken back. It sounds as if you do have a loving relationship so I would hang on to that. What does it matter if someone else stayed since you have already said that you preferred not to? I stayed in a B&B in order to see my daughter and her family because it would have been a squeeze and it worked really well. We retreated when we had had enough! It wouldn't have bothered me if her parents in law had stayed there as it is their choice. It is a mistake to compare ourselves to others and imagine there is greater affection on one side than the other. Just keep on loving your daughter and her family.

Please don't send her an email. Written things get mulled over and other feelings and views get impuned.
I suggest you go down on your own, offer to babysit, stay on your own on the air bed which will be more comfy. Offer to buy then a sofa bed of you have funds.

Polnan, maybe youre reading too much into it too- maybe its not about 'entertaining' you- although we all remember when we were young- & how we felt if family or in- laws just 'turned up' on doorstep dont we?? Also they might not want you 'doing the jobs they have to do' it implies you think theyre not doing things right/enough or whatever- also they may just want their weekends as family time just for relaxing themselves or doing their own thing- more so if they both work all wk- i dont see why you cant drive in the dark? If you can drive, you can drive, cant you? (As my son says, " i have car lights mum" when i worry about him on rds at night!) If you cant SEE properly after dark, then maybe you shouldnt be driving at all- or could you get a taxi to theirs, & maybe they can drop you back off later? Or maybe you can go maybe only once a month or something to Give them breathing space a bit? Just to 'get you out of the house' sounds a bad excuse to visit your family- if i visit my AC its because i love& miss them & wish to see them to enjoy their company occasionally, not to have a trip out to get me out of the house- cant other things get you out a bit? A nice walk? A visit to a friend? A stroll round the shops? I appreciate its harder in a pandemic, as we cant join clubs etc but theres still some things to do just to get you out a bit other than heading straight to their house every weekend surely? And if you are in your own house- how about a bit of sorting, gardening, baking or a hobby to entertain yourself?? Why have to 'get out' all the time? I dont understand all this 'over emotional' stuff a lot of gransnetters are saying about? Life is what it is at the moment, upsetting yes, but we have to accept it, for now, and have a bit of backbone, & get on with things.

Imputed! Sorry

Oh Flopen I know exactly where you are coming from. Your situation virtually mirrors one i had a few years ago with my own daughter who lives some 200 miles away. She is my eldest and after she went to uni we really became detached from each other. She spent more time with her boyfriends parents than with us. It got worse when she married the in laws paid for most of it because at the time we were going through bad times financially and couldnt afford the flash wedding she wanted. In saying that still paid over 4k towards it. That day was horrendous as they seemed to take over and the mother on law became her real mother. I didn't know what to do. When I tried to express my feelings she just shot me down. I felt lost. When she had her first child she asked us to come and see her and the baby and i said we would stay in a hotel if she wanted us to she agreed. However when I found out the in laws had been and stayed with them I was furious. In my mind I felt pushed out and unwanted I couldn't get my head round it at the time until I found out exactly what was going on. It turned out they had just said they were coming and expected (quite selfishly) to stay with them. My daughter had no say in it because she didn't want to upset her husband. It was horrendous for her not knowing what to do for the best. I only found this out by sitting down and talking to her. She did say things that upset me which I won't go into and she said I upset her we both ended up crying but in the end resolved the situation and other issues which I didn't even know existed all because we had stopped talking. I had missed so many issues that should have been resolved at the time. We are closer now than we have ever been and gone through a lot of heartache together which again I will leave for another post. So my advice is to talk face to face. Texts and letters can be misunderstood and not taken in the correct context. When you speak to someone face to face you can see their reaction and work with it. Sometimes you have to really get to the nitty gritty of a situation even if its a scary place to go. You just have to go there otherwise you will just carry on feeling bitter towards her until in the end you just don't speak at all then its too late. Good luck i really hope you get this sorted out.

Nannan2 - you are a bit cut and dried! I think it is emotional, being elderly and navigating relationships with AC, never mind COVID, and being a widow during Covid must be tough. I agree with others, try to find a way to have some time alone with your daughter next time you plan a visit and ask her if there is anything on her mind which may create a distance between you. Good luck and virtual hug!

Sorry to hear this. I think you could talk it over with perhaps the suggestion that you go out for a meal/picnic with the children. Stay for two days in the hotel and perhaps babysit for them to have a night out? A work colleague who always dreads her mother coming to visit, does so because her mother “tidies up, finds jobs to do” which leaves her irritated because she feels her mother is judging her. If you stayed in the hotel for two nights it wouldn’t feel so overwhelming for her providing you weren’t with her all day. She loves you but not all mothers and daughters get along. I always have to step back and let my daughter take the lead. It works because she does all the arranging and fits us in to her busy life in her terms. She is an organiser and some would say a control freak! Hope this helps.

Please, do not put anything in writing, e mail or otherwise. In my experience it can be misinterpreted and brooded over for years if someone decides to use it as evidence of a perceived grudge. You may see it as an attempt to put things right, they may see it as a criticism aimed to provoke and antagonise.

Your DD lives a long way away so a visit of 2-3+ days or a week would be reasonable. To me staying in a hotel would be the choice too, far easier to have relaxing time and no disturbed sleep for you or disturbed routines for your DD's family.

To stay longer would mean you could spend periods of time doing your own thing and taking pressure off your DD. Then just meeting up for an afternoon, or evening or day out....after discussing thoroughly with each other of course. Then both parties aren't overwhelmed.

You say your DD is loving...how lucky is that. 'On her terms'...isn't that her right? I think you should let go and live more of a life of your own, to be so upset seems over the top to me and you may be expecting her to make your life happy...she is now independent with her own family and pressures and needs.

The other family seems overbearing and probably a damn nuisance when they are there. Ignore them. Just be thankful you are a considerate person whose daughter loves you. Keep your feelings to yourself, deal with your emotions without putting it onto your DD or risk making things worse. Instead calmly talk and try and negotiate a better scenario for future visits. Listen to your DD...and between you work out the best ways which suit both parties when you visit.

I’m wondering, because of the problems with your mum, ( and I understand that entirely), you may be misinterpreting things with your daughter. Sometimes, I think things become ‘real ‘because we expect them to, and that’s not actually how it is at all. What you see with the in laws, may not be how it actually is, and your daughter may have hated every minute, as someone else said. You say your daughter has young children and is tired, and most likely oblivious to all of this. Don’t assume you’ll go the same way as you and your mother, just be kind, offering support if she needs it, and you’re able to give it. Act completely naturally. I would worry, that your loving daughter may change if you show your inadequacies in any way, particularly as you live a distance away. Nothing wrong with staying in a hotel, but ask her what she would like next time. Don’t make a problem where there possibly isn’t one at the moment.

I forgot to say that a longer stay would mean you could maybe give your DD a day off whilst you see your GD in her own home with her own toys etc, or take her out. You could also babysit in the evening/s. Or you could help DD with tasks like tidying the garden...and of course take them all out for a cream tea or evening meal at some point.

A stay of one day means you can't do anything much, so less chance to bond, or to help or to treat.

I have been in a very similar position and advise you to tread carefully. I never had a good relationship with my mum, she never liked me and has pushed me away for as long as I remember. Nothing I ever did was good enough. I lost my Dad last year so I am of no use to her now so she has nothing more to do with me.
I had issues with my sons who are both in their late 20s with wives children of their own. I have been really hurt by both if them over the past few years and it seems to follow a pattern in that they only want me when they ask for help. My youngest cut me out of his life 6 months ago when I told him how used I felt, and more recently my eldest has done exactly the same after I said how upset I was that he referred to his stepmum as his mum when posting publicly that she had died. Anyone reading this could have assumed I had died! Their father and I divorced over 10 years ago and I have a new partner and they didn't seem to like the fact that I wasnt dangling on a string when they decided they wanted something and have been critical of my choices although I dont do this to them! It's so unfair but unfortunately we just seem to have to 'suck it up' when our children upset us as they dont like being told about it. We walk on eggshells around them but they write us off all to easily.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do but do proceed with caution ?

Perhaps, by trying to not be intrusive, your daughter is thinking that you don't want more.
She could be just as upset as you, thinking you're being aloof.
You'll never know if you don't ask.

I had this situation a few years ago. I used to do everything with my daughter and then when our granddaughter came along it was the three of us. We had days out, lunches, theatre trips etc.
My DD then became friends with a girl who, in my opinion, totally took over my DD's life. They spent as much time together as possible. The girl's mother was often invited to nights out, lunches etc. I was not invited. Sometimes the girl's mother's friends were invited too but not me. They were in a clique. I was outside. DD also went out for meals etc with the girl's parents too.
I was upset and unfortunately list my temper with my daughter and she was furious. She said 'I have no idea what you are talking about', It nearly caused a permanent rift which would have been awful.
DD has now fallen out with this girl and I think she's realised what was happening.
I would say try not to be upset. Things have a habit of turning around.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd never allow any child to really upset me.

If their behaviour is thoughtless or even wicked, I'd just express my disapproval and distance myself.

(Perhaps that's because I have four, though.)

I am sorry that your dd is treating you that way. I feel your pain. My Mother is in her 80's and treats me horribly; always has. That plays into my angst and loneliness over my daughter and I not being very close as I had hoped we would be. We have an intense relationship, which is not the same as close. My own Mom has no use for me unless I am acting in the role of slavish servant, adoring fan, or rescuer. I guess part of me didn't realize that I was dumping all that on my daughter, expecting her to do the same for me until recently when I was made painfully aware of it after a funeral. I vowed not to do that to my daughter anymore, and to just let it go, love her from afar, and most of all, to get my own life back from both of them! This group has helped me do that. So much wisdom here...thanks to all for sharing.

I usually express my feelings by prolonging time between visits to give them time to reflect and appreciate our relationship/s [I've 2 sons]. They get the message, no words to hurt anyone. They aren't daft enough not to realise something is wrong and to work out what it is. It's a bit of a family 'code'.

On my side I also reflect, appreciate the relationship I have with them, remember who they were as children, How they think, who they are, who they are now with, their lifestyle...and how much there is to lose if I lost their love and trust. Then I go and visit....if I haven't already had a text asking when I'm next coming over. If there needs to be a conversation then we can have a talk calmly after the event no when things may be raw.

It works for us. No drama, no tears, no tantrums, no harsh words.

I'm new to site please can you send links or explain, in layman's terms what going to court for access to grandchildren after row with son.
He won't attend mediation so I need to take a b8g breath and step into legal world ? Thanks in advance

I feel the same. I've a son an only child , he married. When my first grandchild was born and they lived near to me , everything was fine. We ( hubby and me ) supported them practically emotionally and financially. I adored my granddaughter , we were extremely close. However my Dil decided she wanted to be near her own parents so they moved ( I do get girls closer to their mum's ) then things got worse.. I looked after my GD every week to help out with childcare , I loved it , I drove a 3 round trip , I wouldn't want f changed it. However I was never asked to stay over , have supper , once my Dil came home it was we don't need you now. My GD used to cry when I left , it broke my heart... Her own parents were treated differently , I can't explain they just were , always just going round , out for days , babysitting , meals cooked for them. Never once did I have a meal cooked for me/ us... Christmas was the same , no invite , but Dil parents would be there , no granddaughter birthday party but Dil parents there.. so yes eventually envy/ jealousy does creep in , inevitable , I'm human. Now I'm estranged not my choice , I've nearly had a break down through pain and sadness , a new granddaughter I've never met , so talk talk talk , and sometimes sorry to say things are planned , nothing you can do , out if your control. ???

A few years ago there was a rift between us and our DD and SIL. It is fair to say it was started by them being selfish and thoughtless and made worse by our reaction to it i.e. we didn't take the way they treated us lying down. We agreed to meet up to discuss it and I thought it would be a good idea to put my feelings and my take on the situation in writing and let them read it before the meeting in the hope they would see our side and their attitude would soften towards us. Believe me, the letter was very gentle and reasonable. However, quite the opposite happened. They were furious at me and were screaming and shouting at us as soon as the meeting began. It was shocking. The letter only made things much worse, mainly because they refused to look at it from any other viewpoint but their own. I never write anything down now and wouldn't recommend that as an option here. Our relationship still hasn't recovered many years later.

I've always considered it best not to know too much detail of what is going on with the other inlaws. Therein lies a competition concept. How do you know the others stay in house and for how long? Do you ask? I sometimes do in house and sometimes local hotel depending on what suits the occasion. Plus of inhouse is that I so love it when the GC sneak into my bed in the early hours. The rest of my life can accommodate catch-up sleep.

Honestly, AC can be very difficult. Carry on staying in a hotel if that suits you better. We have done the same and find it very civilised. We do love our GC but are quite happy to have a pleasant grown-up breakfast in the hotel before spending the rest of the day with them. My DD is another one who is off to bed at 9pm pleading she's had a busy day so returning to the hotel before she disappears off to bed (or falls asleep on the sofa - we must be so boring) is a good option. And as someone above rightly says, do not compare with the 'other side' as that is the way madness lies!

Bluebird243 lovely understanding advice.

Dear all - thank you all for such wonderful, thoughtful advice. There is so much wisdom in there. I do have so much. My husband and I are both active and enjoy each other's company, we have other children, and I do know that my daughter loves me.
So perhaps I will concentrate on holding onto that.
It's just that I feel surrounded by grandparents who are a big part of their gc's upbringing. As someone said - never compare yourself with others.....

Absolutely don't write to her or talk to her about it! You already know that's a no go area. I can't see what she's doing wrong. She invites you and is a loving DD. You choose to stay in a hotel and no doubt, go back there so as not to disturb DGC's bedtime. I think your DD will be grateful to you and have no idea you are upset. Don't be jealous of the in-laws, they ARE inconveniencing your DD. Couldn't think if anything worse than the in-laws staying for days - and I really like mine!