Why are so many elderly abandoned by grown up children.

HolyHannah, it's not about estrangement.
AnnieP I can understand you being hurt, I think we have all been thoughtless at some times with our parents, due to commitments, but we still loved them.

I think it's fair to mention estrangment here because if you look at how well a relationship is going, estrangement is at one end of the spectrum.

Its not really a seperate thing.. And it's a valid choice to make.

I think if I had managed until my mum was older, without her driving me to a breakdown and getting professional advice, I would not have estranged physically but I probably would have mentally. It would be hard to physically estrange someone who was frail. It's something I sometimes worry about because I was the one to do the running about and organising and taking care in our family. My mum would not do that for her own father though when he was elderly and frail.

Just because I can't be around my mum for the sake of my mental health, doesn't actually mean I want harm to come to her.

I guess that's because I can imagine the mum I needed though and the hope she would be that mum one day left some form of love in place.

It's NOT about estrangement.
But what does that matter. ?

I look after my elderly relatives, I have a sister who does nothing. Some family lives too far away but the ones who live near are too busy with their own lives it seems. I shall carry on doing what I do knowing that I cannot do more. One day they won't be here and it will be too late then for regrets.

Yes Lucca there does seems to be some confusion as to the difference between abandonment and estrangement

I'm sorry that your son does seem to have been thoughtless annepl; now that you told him how you feel about it, fingers crossed he'll be in touch a bit more regularly.

In the absence of affection and love, duty is better than nothing. In times gone by duty to extended family , including aged parents, was more important than it is now, in the developed world anyway.

I think it's a personal thing. Not everyone abandones their parents as well as not everyone maintains good relationships with them. But I agree with one of the PPs saying that it might happen due to very different opinions on some important topics, thus people prefer not to meet quite often so that they don't have to discuss any crucial points.

There is a difference between abandonment and estrangement! I'm not sure why there appears to be confusion about ggat difference.

annepl I hope things resolve for you

I think they are on a spectrum and it's a shame that so many want to silence other points of view when they could just accept them as valid and still continue the conversation.

I expect I am just used to being told around here that anyone can comment anywhere about anything...

Unless you are an estranged child perhaps?

I agree with starblaze.

there is a spectrum of those families who are close and have daily contact, those not so close due to geographical distance but plenty of contact via whatever’s easiest. At t’other end is the extreme of estrangement where one party wants no contact at all for whatever reason.

However this thread was originally about perceived abandonment which of course is subjective.

Thanks Chewbacca and Madgran for your kind remarks.

Where is anyone wanting to silence? There is simply a difference of opinion about the relevance of estrangement on this thread

I agree with Pantglas and Starblaze that there is a spectrum regarding family relationships. I also agree with Pantglas that this thread was about abandonment which is subjective. I personally do not think that estrangement is relevant in this context. It is fine if others disagree ofcourse, that's what discussion and debate should be about!

And Sparkling I agree. We can all be thoughtless without realising.

Can I just add, I remember my mum, whom I loved spending time with, saying, God forgive you for leaving me alone, when I had to go one day. Talk about making someone feel guilty!
I would not do that to my children. And in a way I'm sorry I told my son I was hurt.
But enough about me.........

And in a way I'm sorry I told my son I was hurt

I sort of get that annepl ...at the same I think maybe it doesnt do any harm to hear that from someone. I wonder if it's harder to Eexpress to ACs because natural parental instincts are to protect I think, even with adult children. I have thought that for a while in my own case

Oh definitely Madgran.
We never lose that desire to protect. We hate to hear of them being ill or unhappy. I worry about my son out on his motorbike. My daughter alone during the pandemic. When we have serious health worries we keep it to ourselves rather than worry them.
It's our natural instinct as you say. And I wouldn't want to change.

I agree Madgran. If our AC says or does something that hurts or upsets us, it's perfectly reasonable to say so, just as it's perfectly reasonable for our AC to say if we have said or done something that hurts or upsets them.

Don't reproach yourself annep1 for telling your son how you felt. How is he to know if you don't tell him.

As has already been said, communication is the key or are we going to end up with a society where parents are going to be afraid to be open and honest with their own AC?

Perceived abandonment is vastly different too estrangement as is abuse and IMO neither are relevant to this particular discussion.

Don't reproach yourself for telling your DS how you felt annepl; he's an adult and is big enough to be made aware that he's disappointed you a little on this occassion. It doesn't mean that you're demanding too much from him or that you expect to be in the forefront of his mind all the time, but a gentle reminder that you exist and would like to see him sometimes is not unreasonable.

Very good post @ 11.49 Madgran.

annep1

Summerlove

Unless it's something infectious why would I not want him to visit. Did you never visit a sick parent?
Besides I said we were both sick last week.

I rarely see my son. He was in the same town, five minutes away. I'm not hurt about not joining him for dinner. Just that he didn't stop by. What's confusing?

And are you trying to say I don't care about loved ones because I want them to visit me when I'm ill? What nonsense, And how unkind.

I’m saying that with covid going on, no, I don’t visit Ill relatives.

You said you were sick last week, and that it was last week that he was out to dinner close to you.

So no, I wouldn’t expect my children to visit if I were ill at this point in time.

As for your suggestion that I said you don’t love them, I said no such thing.

Simply that I would be telling my loved ones not to visit. Nothing to do with you.

And in a way I'm sorry I told my son I was hurt.

I think it’s brilliant that you told your son that you were hurt. The only way to have proper relationship going forward is to be clear about your desires and your feelings. It’s when everything is hidden and expectations are not clear that problems are more likely to happen. This way you know you have laid out your expectations. He can choose to follow them or not, but you can’t be accused of being unclear.

Don't reproach yourself Annep1
I'll try not to Smileless

Perhaps lack of honesry is a problem all round.

Sorry typing error..should read honesty.

Point taken Summerlove. .. But saying hello for five minutes in the front garden or through the window would have been good.

I do think maybe people aren't honest with each other, possibly for fear of offending or ruining the relationship they have. Maybe its time for sone families to rethink communication as Smileless said.

annepl I also agree you were right to tell your son you were upset. There is a huge difference between putting people on guilt trips and just saying you were upset they didn't call in. One is love, the other is malice.

You have told him how you feel, he is aware and that's fine I think.

thanks Starblaze

How can there be one rule to fit all??
Different families, different needs, different ideas on what is necessary to stay in touch.
My son, (for example) detests talking to ANYONE on the phone, if he does ring, then I will need to do all the talking. With modern technology, he would know very quickly if I was unwell ,etc and then would come straight down to me. I do not need to chatter away meaninglessly to him on some sort of calendar schedule to know that I love him and he loves me.
One of my daughter usually contact me (or me her about one a fortnight), again, no contact means nothing wrong. Two other daughters I only chat on the phone to every few weeks, sometimes I ring them, sometimes they ring me. Again, we are close and do care about each other, but do not need telephone chat to prove it.
Last daughter lives close by and I see her once or twice a week. If there was any problem with me, she would be quickly in touch with her siblings
One month not speaking may be normal for some families, for others it may be too long - there cannot be any set rules.

Some children just don't seem to need any contact with their parents. I have one son who doesn't respond to texts, though he does read them, won't answer his phone, doesn't believe in the safety of anything like Skype, so we have no contact at all with our granddaughters, which breaks our hearts. We send them books, toys etc, but don't hear that they have arrived. There is no estrangement, we will hear from him if he wants something, and he will occasionally send texts to his siblings, but he just can't see the need for contact with his parents!

Just recently we had a text to say they were returning to the UK and could they quarantine in our house! Of course we have been over the moon to see them, but they have now left, and we have no idea when we will ever see or hear from them again.

Our other children will respond to calls and texts, and are happy to visit, so we can't have been utterly abysmal as parents!