My daughter-in-law dominates my son

'Man up'? Staying with your wife, staying quiet, keeping her sweet in order to keep your children. That is the mark of 'A Man' in my opinion. Not everyone is willing to 'Man up', to put their children's happiness before their own.

I would leave well alone.

If your son cannot abide how he is treated by his wife, he can leave.

My daughter's MIL messaged me to inform me that she didn't like the way that my daughter spoke to her son.

I already knew that he had demanded that my daughter abort her last pregnancy or he would leave her (she went ahead with the pregnancy, he didn't leave). MIL wasn't aware of this.

I approached my daughter to broach the subject of how she spoke to her partner - it came out that he wasn't giving her his fair share of money towards the household because he was spending hundreds a week on drugs and prostitution. My daughter was seriously struggling emotionally and financially.

I had no idea.

I helped my daughter to extricate her way out of that relationship because she was frightened of his threats.

He thought that he had trapped her and could live as he pleased with a minimal contribution to the household expenses.

Since he left my daughter has had debt collection agencies chasing after him and also found out he has another two children she knew nothing about.

You never know what is going on behind closed doors.

It’s interesting
Once upon a time my in-laws would have said I was controlling everything in our family. DHs sibling was convinced they’d never seen him so miserable. That he was letting me be unfair to his family.

We have no idea where that idea came from. Perhaps an occasional complaint? They complained I’d changed him.

What they didn’t see was him quietly agreeing with me. Choosing not to do things as his family had done previously. It was all seen as him being weak. I found that so insulting.

What it was was him having support to not just fall in line.

But I was labeled the bitch who stole him for years. The bitch who dominated him.

No.Peasblossom is spot on.He should be talking to the wife not belly aching to Daddy and Mummy.

Well it's not "a mark of a man" IMO love0c and if the OP's d.i.l. is manipulative and controlling, as well a bully it's hardly a good environment to be raising children in.

For those on this thread who think the OP's son
is 'whinging to mummy and daddy' and needs to man up, I suggest you take the time to read up about the insidious and destructive nature of coercive control.

This looks as of it could be an emotionally abusive relationship. If the OP was talking about her D rather than her son, would your view that she should put her children's happiness before her own still stand love0c?

Children are better off dividing their time between two happy parents then living with both, in what can become a toxic atmosphere where one or both are miserable.

The fear of losing contact with their children is real for many, especially fathers. Children should never be used as pawns in the games both or either of their parents are prepared to play, but unfortunately some are.

Summerlove,

I am in your same position, I am sure my ILs may not like me that much

Their son changed diet habits (on his own), consult and make decisions with me instead of his parents, he became westernized and he is not sending as much money as they would like, refuses to participate in family drama and tells them to fix their problems themselves, etc....

Behind closed doors, " whatever you decide is good" was the default answer when we tried to make decisions together, even when we were dating

PB said if very wisely - it is all part of a pattern of behaviour

Unfortunately all you can do is be there for him. My youngest used to be with someone similar. He would work long night shift hours 60hrs she would wake him because he hadn’t done nothing in house. Yet he never stopped he was always doing housework shopping and looking after his daughter. he lost so much weight she used to time him coming home from work or if he visit me. She would be on phone wanting him to go home and he had my granddaughter with him. I saw granddaughter loads too. He told me he couldn’t take much more. I told him if got to bad he knew where I was. Few weeks later He came home with his stuff. She was so bitter after he left she used my granddaughter as a weapon we lost contact of my granddaughter. He was with her 6yrs.

Sad when relationships of those close to us are troubled, but they are those peoples relationships and they have to find their owns ways of dealing with the flaws. Support your son by all means but remember any words of critisism can never be unsaid.

I can’t believe the cruel sexist remarks made against men. I can only assume people making them have no empathy at all. If any men are reading this site please note and never show any vulnerability.

My DL is very domineering and has never wanted much to do with me or the rest of the family. She’s all her family. I find her very selfish and I’ve seen how she bosses my son around. I keep quiet. My son is big enough to look after himself. He’s a gentle soul but when he’s had enough he’ll say something but when he does then is his wife wants to leave him and take the children. I don’t interfere but listen when my son wants to talk. That’s all I can do.

Sadly, OP, you son has to make his own mind up about what he wants to do and what he can do about his marriage.

You love him, and obviously will tend to believe that the faults are all on your DIL's side, but are they?

Quite a lot of women take on the responsibility of "deciding everything" because when they try to discuss anything from the upbringing of the children to paying of the mortgage or choosing new wallpaper, their husbands just say, "Do as you like, dear" meaning I can't be bother trying to do anything about it.

This may not be the case in you son's marriage, but I assure you that down through the ages many women have been forced to decide things on their own because their husbands were too d*****d lazy to decide anything at all.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of it, no good has ever come of meddling between man and wife. Only you can decide whether giving advice would be meddling or not.

If my son complained in the same way about his wife, my advice would be, "Son, only you can decide what you want to do about your marriage, but your father and I will support your decision, whatever it is, once you have made it."

He and his wife have been for counselling and she dismissed it completely. So it isn't a pattern of him running to "mummy and daddy."

If she is a punisher she will make his life hell every day if he tries to stand up to her. Coercive control happens very gradually, it's subtle to begin with and progresses cruelly for men just as it does for women. Would anyone tell a female to woman up or grow a pair?
The question of access to children is also a huge factor in standing up to a bully, as much as you don't want your kids seeing this modelled you also don't want them to see the fall out from someone already beaten down trying to stand up to the bully.
I'm ashamed of some of the comments on here. If you disagree look up coercive control and narcissism. This behaviour by women directed at their male partners is a hidden statistic. The figures for abuse to men are less than for women but it is historically hugely under reported because men are physically stronger. No wonder suicide is the biggest killer of men under 45.

Smileless You misunderstood my comment. It was referring to the poster who said they shouldn't be talking to Mummy and Daddy and should 'Man up'.

All those posters who are posting about using children as a weapon and condemning the DIL on that basis, please note that it has nothing to do with this OP.
She says right at the start that they have “plenty of access to the grandchildren”.

In regard to the comment made after counselling.
Firstly, it is a real betrayal of trust to talk to anyone else about what has gone on in couples counselling. She would be fully justified in being very upset that he had taken that back to his parents.

Secondly she may have felt it was ridiculous because no progress had been made, not because she thought counselling was ridiculous. Both parties in counselling need to listen to the other and too be willing to change.

Our son went off the rails after he'd been married for 6 years and had a child from another woman. A year later he and his wife got back together. Ever since then, he tried to sort of make amends, by giving in to everything his wife wanted. Now 15 years later they've split up -a mutual decision. He told us that he's not going to say a word about his wife won't put up with others saying anything either. The only thing he's said is -at last I'm thinking about my family and not putting everyone else's first. A word of advice, listen to what he says if he needs to talk, but keep out of it and let them sort themselves out.

Listen but don't interfere. He needs to sort this out himself not through his mum and dad It is hard to watch a child being hurt by their partner but you need to watch what you say about the wife. If they do get back to a good relationship together then you can be quoted if you have spoken up.
I have seen this in our wider family

Yes I have misunderstood your post love0c I didn't realise you were referring to another poster. I apologise for the curtness of my response.

I agree Tinydancer some of the responses are shameful and would never have been made if the OP was talking about a D and not her son.

No apology needed Smileless. I am just sorry if it caused you to feel bad in any way. Just seen you have made mince pies. I still need to make mine!

My late father married a woman like this 25 years ago and was very happy with the situation. He hated being the ‘man of the house’ when married to my mother. When he got with wife #3 who was a childless divorcée school teacher and a bossy boots, he loved it. Couldn’t stand responsibility for anything!

No it didn't love0c.

Had a couple of warm with mince pies with cream for our pudding.

Good luck! Your situation sounds worse than mine. You bring up your son to be courteous and polite, then find he’s taken advantage of. I do hope you can see your grandchildren

My last message was meant to be a private one to another poster.

My son had a wife like that - he was miserable for years but didn’t want to rock the boat. He was all but estranged from me when we had previously been very close. Then by chance he met someone and it seems as if it was a ’love at first sight’ moment for both of them. They didn’t start an affair, but it gave them both the impetus to do what they should have done years back. With this new lady in his life, I have my son back to his old self, and my eldest GS also commented that he felt like he had his dad back.
So if your DIL will not make the effort to appreciate your son, he will need to decide when he feels strong enough to leave, unfortunately you, like me, have to stand by and support him as best you can whatever he decides..

Readerjb - As an existential psychotherapist my first reaction is to point out that we all have human agency and that your son has the power to make a choice about his relationship. However, if this had been a story about a daughter the first thing my mind could have gone to is the possibility of gas-lighting, because that really does throw up the fact that when one is being coerced, it's very hard to make changes as the power dynamic is toxic and in the favour of the coercer. Personally, I don't agree with the idea that your son has come whining to you - that's a rather unwholesome interpretation of the situation - he has reached out to you in the hope of either feeling better having aired his feelings, or of receiving some advice. If he's asked for help then it isn't wrong to give it. The suggestion that he has therapy himself is a good one because this could well help his self-esteem and ability to communicate assertively. I wonder what his response was when he and his wife left the couples counsellor, and his wife made a derogatory comment - if he had asked what she thought was ridiculous about the situation, he might know a bit more. Unlike other posters I would not advise you to keep out of his relationship as he's reached the point where he wants to disclose. So, I would try to do things that enable time together (son and dil) - offer to take the grandchildren for a weekend so they can have some private time.

Just avoid taking sides! If they stay together this will open up a whole can of worms if you have had bad things to say about your DIL and you may never see your GC again. Just be supportive and be there, but do not encourage "disclosures".

Your son is a grown adult and has to deal with this situation himself. Sympathising too much will reinforce in him the idea that he is not capable of dealing with his own life and his own relationships - you could reinforce the powerless mode that his wife seems to have foisted on him.

He needs to be encouraged to feel he can deal with this; and given some support for his self-esteem, rather than going down the route of agreeing that his wife is awful.

Letting him "disclose" is fine up to a point, but you have to deal with the burden of this knowledge, which is not yours to bear. He has stated that things are not good, and all you can do is to reinforce his self-worth and encourage him to feel he can deal with it. You do not need to take this on.