Smacking children

VioletSky Yes the first part of the Proverb is "Spare the rod..." that most assume means a physical implement. Elsewhere in the Bible it talks of the "rod of His mouth" when referring to the Lord disciplining the Israelites ... suggesting not necessarily a physical rod. It is great that sone parents have managed to discipline children without smacking although not sure what form of disciplne they used. As others have said it seems any form of discipline is labelled as abuse today.
The majority of people have no faith these days so understand they mock the Bible and it's teachings. However I have no idea where they get their sense of right or wrong from but probably fair to say they aren't in a good place to teach their children right from wrong. Can appreciate why they're happier to nothing than be accused of abuse.

DiscoDancer1975

I would love to be here in say another 15 ...20 years, and see if the adult children then feel they were harmed by lack of discipline. They may have issues of neglect, or just simply not being cared about enough for their parents to bother.

Who knows?

Why?

No problem. halfpint

I would love to be here in say another 15 ...20 years, and see if the adult children then feel they were harmed by lack of discipline. They may have issues of neglect, or just simply not being cared about enough for their parents to bother.

Who knows?

VioletSky

Oh sorry halfpint I thought I was agreeing with you... If I wasn't I'm not sure what you mean

oops , re read your post and realise you were agreeing, apologies

I'm against all physical punishment - usually all it does is build resentment. But I think a slap given in anger isn't as bad as a planned hit as part of a punishment regime. Too reminiscent of treatment in prison or concentration camp. Can become sadistic.
However the worst I've seen was a Headmaster chasing a naughty boy around his office waving a cane. The boy wouldn't hold his hand out to be caned. I had refused to cane him. This was about 1960. before corporal punishment in schools was banned.

As has been said society has changed in many ways for the better and hitting children is now generally unacceptable whatever may have been the norm in the past.
Children in Scotland are afforded the same rights as adults in this respect. No matter what words you couch it in ie smacking, spanking or slapping to physically chastise or discipline a child, you can be charged with assault in Scotland, and the sooner the law is changed in England the better.

Antonia I have already said I have 2 adult children.

It can be very difficult to let go of old practices that we engaged in.

These are our children, it is awful to think that we could have potentially harmed people we love.

I do understand that but the rules have changed and we have to let past practices go and keep looking for better ways forward

EllanVannin

Agree with you Antonia.

Violetsky, it wasn't my intention to be insulting. You are entitled to your theories (but I suggest you examine them once you have your own adult children). I am merely stating an opinion that in my view, your ideas are naive and ill thought out. I too have Christian friends of my own age, and they share my views on the upbringing of children. Their families too are well adjusted, stable and successful.

Thank you EllanVannin. I'm leaving this discussion now as I realise that there are widely differing opinions and that neither side will agree with the other.

NOt sure about the black square.....

So many things done or accepted as ok in the past were wrong and with time quite rightly, we have changed our minds, and the law too in many cases. No one is saying they would smack children now, because they don’t.

As parents we are responsible for teaching our children how to behave, what is good what is not, but sitting explaining quietly ( time and time again) what they have done wrong and why can go in one ear...just doesn’t work.

Have to say our (middle aged ) children were generally better behaved than children now. They were part of the family of course, but not as seems now, the central focus which everything revolves round. I sometimes wonder how they will cope as they grow up. A hard lesson.

Allsorts why have you focused your comment on me?

I didn't bring the bible or religion into discussion

Also, I didn't bring the idea that smacking is abuse into the discussion.

I said that I couldn't see where the line was between the two and that personally I believe smacking is wrong.

Violet, if you want to quote the bible, spare the rod and spoil the child, not something I agree with but there it is. Everyone has heard that, you can contradict so much in the bible, but this isn’t about religionThis is modern day uk. I did not smack or was smacked. However, why are you talking child abuse? No one condones abuse on here, or they wouldn't be on here. I think a lot of very young children are tapped on the hand to stop them doing something dangerous. I feel you have to be very careful of every word you utter for fear of it being picked at and assumptions made.

Agree with you Antonia.

Oh sorry halfpint I thought I was agreeing with you... If I wasn't I'm not sure what you mean

Antonia I don't think you understand, no job means no money for luxuries

Prisoners may have some limited access but they certainly aren't allowed to browse as they wish.

I'm sorry but your arguments have no weight which is why I suppose you resorted to being insulting.

It's strange that you would call me skewed for simply agreeing with modern day consesus that smacking is wrong and we shouldn't be doing it and that religion in modern times is not a justification. My Christian friends do not smack either

Violet Sky , of course I realise that child abuse still goes on,
that abuse is not what I am referring to and such replies are a little insulting . Everyday family discipline has changed , the
long term results are yet to be seen or are being seen.

Ideology, sorry.

VioletSky

Antonia

Yes we do.

In the workplace infractions can result in sitting quietly while your supervisor or HR manager explains the rules, repeated infractions means you lose your job and quite possibly your Internet and access to things you enjoy

Or we have the law.

If adults break it they are forced to sit quietly in court and listen as the rules are explainex to them. For small crimes they might lose some of their money, for large crimes they are put in a room with no access to Internet or the things they enjoy.

We have moved past physical punishment for children or adults.

I have yet to hear of any repeated workplace infractions resulting in loss of internet access.
Prisoners do actually have internet access. And maybe if they'd been brought up in stable, loving homes with an occasional smacking, they wouldn't be prisoners in the first place.
Your previous comments, particularly those where you appear to rely on biblical sayings as a basis for your somewhat skewed idealogy, makes it clear that we will never agree on this, so you carry on...

halfpint

We never assume all is well, that's why all adults working with children are trained in safeguarding, how to spot signs of abuse, how to report it and how to share that data with other organisations.

Children still slip through the cracks which is, I don't even have the words... Just horrifying

But nothing is assumed

#And it doesn't mean that adults are not affected by what happened to them as children. #

So now we have mostly non smacked Adults, bringing
up their children, and we assume they are well
balanced, without any psycological damage and all is well,
interesting............

Antonia

Yes we do.

In the workplace infractions can result in sitting quietly while your supervisor or HR manager explains the rules, repeated infractions means you lose your job and quite possibly your Internet and access to things you enjoy

Or we have the law.

If adults break it they are forced to sit quietly in court and listen as the rules are explainex to them. For small crimes they might lose some of their money, for large crimes they are put in a room with no access to Internet or the things they enjoy.

We have moved past physical punishment for children or adults.

Bibbity

So if you did something I didn't like and I hit you what work would you call that?

Hitting is assault. It may have been accepted before but that doesn't make it right. And it doesn't mean that adults are not affected by what happened to them as children. Even if it was not a beating or an object was used.

As the other thread shows it doesn't matter what the parent thinks. It matters how the children perceive it.

That's a ridiculous proposition and shallow, completely illogical reasoning. Adults are not children. We do lots of things to children that we don't do to adults. We don't send our work colleagues to sit on a step,or remove their internet connection, or a myriad of other things that are done to children.
As for 'it's how children perceive it,' my own children (now successful, resilient adults with families of their own), probably managed to 'perceive' that I was cross and that they'd better not do it again.

I agree bibbity

Yes as an adult, all hitting other adults is assault so applying that to hitting a child is only logical.

I have 2 adult children if that somehow lends me some credibility

So if you did something I didn't like and I hit you what work would you call that?

Hitting is assault. It may have been accepted before but that doesn't make it right. And it doesn't mean that adults are not affected by what happened to them as children. Even if it was not a beating or an object was used.

As the other thread shows it doesn't matter what the parent thinks. It matters how the children perceive it.